301 stroker build
 

Being retired and having some time on my hands I decided to build a short deck stroker street engine.Most will ask why but my answer is why not.Turbo blocks are around and usually cheap because most dont think they make a good boat anchor.This will follow up to a post I started in the lobby as I think maybe it belongs here as my plane is to build a calif pump gas street friendly engine.I hired Dave at SD to build me a intake and do a set of heads for the small bore.He chose a E single plane intake to cut down and a set of small valve 15 heads.Plan is for 9.5 CR.He did a 2.05 intake and a CNC 260 @ 600 port job.The crank is a 63 326 unit from a doner engine from a board member.Joe Sherman of Joe Sherman Race Engines will handle the assm and dyno.We are using a BBC rod with a custom piston.The cam will be a hyd roller not yet chosen.I will post pics and tell what kind of problems through out the build.Pic of mocked up engine.Tom

pics of crank and main bearing area.Found we need to run a 400 thrust bearing with a 69 thou shim.All other bearing I believe will be 301 mains.Crank will be cut to BBC for the rods.Tom

intake a head pics.Tom

more mock ups.Tom

Intake from top.Tom

RPM capability?

David.I dont think past 6K as I cant put enough cam in it and still be street friendly.Joe Sherman said he will build it like street 383 SBC.He thought we only needed about 230 CFM heads and a cam in the 220-230 range.Dave did not have a CNC program that small.We are shooting for 425 HP which he thought was going to be easy.Tom

Sounds interesting, and I agree. Why not?

Very nice man that thing will sream with the standerd pontiac heads. Just remember the 301 uses its own lifter.

Align hone notwithstanding, would fitting a main cap from a 400 work?

Block web would still be too narrow.The shim is by far the best with almost no down side.The shim cant come out as there is a groove for it.Tom

That looks like a cool build, Tom!

:)

Is that intake already done for the 301?

Also, which 15 heads, I figure the 1968 ones?

:confused:

intake is done.The heads were small valve heard.Dave put a bigger valve in.Tom

What final cubic inch?
Sounds like a good platform for a hair dryer.

I wonder if P-Dudes shim kit for putting factory large journal cranks in 400 blocks would work with this 400 thrust bearing? It sounds like it's about the same difference in width.

power adders dont work for me,I had a PM with Dude.Nunzi told me what I needed,got the material today.Taking to my machinest monday.I think we will end up 4.03 and 3.750.Tom

Almost 383 CID

:)

You know, the bore of the 301 is larger than the 350, which required notches when the 2.11 valve heads were used.

Yours probably wouldn't need notches and you could use a RA IV head.
(or a RA V)

:)

Joe thinks we have more than we need for 425 HP now.Tom

Interesting combo,Tom.

So with the cut-down intake how much was the roof of the head port raised?

Tom Vaught

Dont think it has,maybe Dave will see and reply.Tom

Tom,
What kind of mods were done to the 326 crank to make it fit in the 301 block?

Geno

Geno,nothing,as you can see from the pics the bearings and crank are right out of the 50 year old engine with no clean up.There are a couple spots in the block I might clearance as they are very close to the counter weight but dont touch.Maybe a few thou.Tom

I'm watching the thread with a big grin. I wanted to do the same thing. Figured I could use my spare 3.75 crank and a TII I have laying about as well as a set of #17 heads I ported to 245cfm. At one point I was looking at TI rods from an LS7 to see if they would work in there...

I put ads up here and in local craigs list. Could not come up with a 301T block in 2 years.

I'm enjoying the ride. More please! hehehe

Seems like the intake mods to narrow are a lot harder than they would appear, is there a good deal of epoxy in the ports to blend?

No epoxy

I still never understood why the Pontiac engineers used such a crappy head on their 301-when even Chevy 302s(heck 265s!) have at least one intake port per cylinder! You couldn't even blow enough air down those to make much HP.

Neat project Tom!

One word, emissions? :D

Hope Dave jumps in but I think he cut the flanges off,bolted a set of heads with a head gasket to the block,bolted the flanges on the heads with a intake gasket and then cut the intake at the proper angle and welded it back on?I already had the 301 water X over.Tom

What makes you think you will need alot of cam? You're only feeding 377" with good sized intake ports and valves. Perhaps I missed it, how much compression are you running? Concerning power potential: I think the intersection where the intake and cylinder head meet will make or break this combo, although, I'm sure Dave at SD has got it under control.

It's gonna be a screamer! Cool build, Tom.

9.5 CR,plenum is very large,not sure what that will do.Tom

The reason was for low rpm throttle response. If you have driven one you will understand. The stockers are quite torquey and responsive off of idle. It is hard to notice the different between a 400 and 301 of the same era during normal street driving- idle, off idle and crusiing.


This build seems to be a 389 with a slightly smaller bore and short deck. correct? The real difference being the shorter deck.
Most people on this board hate the little Pontiacs because of its shorter deck. Yet, this build has interest. my Point? There are all Pontiac V8s 265-455 regardless of deck height.
Neat looking build Tom. Best to you with it.

Other than the deck height, what is the real difference than building a 389 though?

Do you think the short deck ( than standard deck ) will make more HP or torque?

Shorter deck = lighter recip parts. Also shorter deck aids manifold runner length more suitable to higher rpm power production without needing too large a plenum. And for those with late model 3rd/4th gen Birds and other vehicles with low hood lines a shorter deck does help.

IIRC all the 1980 up 301's were same block as the 79 T block.

Steve,no clue.Joe just thinks it will be like a 383 SBC.Lighter everything inside might let it live longer,less strain on everything?As I said before,most dont think they make a good anchor.Tom

Im thinking about just buying stock GM Performance L88 rods.Tom

The short deck Pontiac engine experiences are either, negative (broken cranks), moderate (yeah, it was O.K.) or the few high mile units, still running....in the day

This is (thankfully) a completely different deal. The weak link(s) in the short deck engines are the crank, and those crazy dual velocity siamesed port heads, BOTH eliminated in this build.

Tom, Is the intake re-produceable??? or can it be???

An intake for for the old school heads on a 301 block has kept a bunch of folks from building one.....ONLY reason....

Finally a N/A 301 build, w/ some performance potential.

My bias against 265's and 301's is their overall weak crank, and economy heads, nothing exciting.

Steve, I hope your little engine is progressing the direction you hoped for....

Keep up the good work!!!

Dave said the only way he would do another is to start with new,the old alu had too much impuritys.Tom

Hi Tom,
So how long will the rods have to be for this 301/383 stroker? Will L88 rods require a custom piston, or can a SBC production piston be used with the 3.75" stroke crank?

This 301 build has the potential to bring the 301 into the fold as a true performance Pontiac engine, at least with the stroker crank. I guess it would be a good idea to pick up a few 301 blocks now while they're cheap and before the word gets out. An intake cast to work with regular iron heads and the 301 block would make the 301/383 stroker a popular stroker build.

Geno

Joe said the L88 rods are heavyer and no cheaper than SCAT H beams so will be getting them.No clue about a piston yet.Was palnning on a custom from the start,might try to figure if ANY stock 4.030 piston would work with the 6.135 rod.Tom

Are there many differences between the 301 and 301T blocks?

Im told there is but have never had a std block to compare.Tom

Standard blocks are very weak. I have never seen a T-block but the standard block has 7/16" main bolts instead of 1/2" on 1-4 and 1/2" instead of 9/16" on the rear. I had one that seized up and broke the crank in 3 pieces and ripped the 3 center main webbing's out of the block. The main webbing was very thin. I would be afraid to use a standard block for any of this. It was a 79 301 in a Grand Prix.

Stock cranks were subcontracted to Lenox.:rolleyes::D

Tom very cool. Post this on 301garage forum. I know they will love to see this.

Whatever you do don't do that- half of the 301 owners will flood PY with questions and the other half will insist they can make 1000 hp with the stock crank, heads and twin turbos. ;)

Better to build the engine and show them that it takes 326-400 parts to make a better 301.

Geno

LOL,actually posted there days ago but no pics.There is someone on there already that is doing a 4in stroke CV1 race type engine,looks hi dollar,diff from my on the cheap(sort of) street build.Tom

The more that I think about this project.... I commend your for your effort!!! It's the type of build that most of us would be leaning towards.

Although the more I learn about the 301T block, the less I like it (the block, as the foundation for this build). I've read rumblings of a possible short deck block from the AllPontiac folks (or was I dreaming again???:)) I hope the 383 holds up, and meets your expectations!!!

You must have picqued Dave Bisshop's curiosity a lot, to get him to build that intake. As busy as we all know he is, it's a great looking piece. The single plane setup makes the most sense, from ease of fabrication point, a dual plane would have been a lot more difficult w/ the sharp turns and getting everything lined up, at the head.....

Keep on keeping on....

As far as I know there is NO short deck block on the drawing board.There is and has been "shorter" deck blocks on the market.It would take a change in the oil filter pad to make a true short deck block.Tom

Wow what a neet piece. Can't wait to see the turn out on this build.
I'd like to see a big cam and make it a high winder but thats another story.
This is a very interesting build though and can't wait to see the results.
It's going to be a neat piece.

GT.

Crank went to the machine shop for turning today.Shim is being built.Joe and I have decided to run the 3122-3115 cam with 1.65s on the intake and 1.50 on the exhaust.The 3122 I is a 380 lobe and the 3115 E is a 400 lobe.Still not sure about lifters,Comp told me the pontiac hyd roller lifter should be good(SHOULD?)Tom