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-   -   Butler turbo combo build.. (https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734435)

RUDOLFSSON 08-09-2013 01:10 PM

Butler turbo combo build..
 
Nice video...

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes...nch-powerplant

rodneybutler 08-09-2013 10:26 PM

That was a fun build. Can you imagine the look on some doctors face when he gets blown away in his Ferrari on I-65 by a station wagon? Lol

10second70GP 08-10-2013 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodneybutler (Post 4995819)
That was a fun build. Can you imagine the look on some doctors face when he gets blown away in his Ferrari on I-65 by a station wagon? Lol

Lol exactly !! Nice simple build .

elefantrider 08-10-2013 07:34 AM

A good video for showing how to install billet caps and the BOP seal.

PonchoV8 08-10-2013 10:11 AM

Is there a turbo "pattern build" for all components/more specifics for replicating a similar project available?

ponjohn 08-11-2013 10:17 AM

What power did that make in the car?

It kept blowing the charge pipe off on the dyno.

RUDOLFSSON 08-16-2013 08:54 AM

Here's a nice video of how they did the exhaust piping etc...

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes...le-motor-build

Steve Barcak 08-16-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodneybutler (Post 4995819)
That was a fun build. Can you imagine the look on some doctors face when he gets blown away in his Ferrari on I-65 by a station wagon? Lol

Rodney,
What a great build and feature. Your family is 'living the Pontiac life" and doing so well. congrats.

One question though..
While watching the video of the build, I noticed you did not drill the block deck for the extra cooling hole ( above the center head bolt hole on the lower row). Also noticed your gaskets do not have the hole either. However, the hole did appear to be in the heads.

Based on this, do you feel this mod is not needed? I have used it for a few decades now and really think it helps cooling in that center area where the 2 exh valves are and helping to extend head gasket life.

Comments?

Thank you again for all you and your family do and have done for our Pontiacs!

BruceWilkie 08-18-2013 12:41 PM

Steve... this may be of interest... I was drilling a scrap 6x head just below valve cover rail and between the outboard center bolt.... there is a "vein" cast on the centerbolt boss that extends out into the water cavity almost to where the "cooling mod" hole is. I would guess its there to help pull heat away? CV1 heads have a similar feature cast in which IS intended for that purpose.

I drilled along the entire rail looking to see if I could plumb reverse cool similar to the water tubes in the 55-59 heads... seems I can get similar effect that way... 9 holes @ 3/8 id is about same total area as hose id of the early timing cover... and can get close to each valve plus add the extra feed in front of the centerbolt... would be like plumbing a fuel injector rail. Water can exit out the ends on manifold side of head. Very little water actually flows thru the early blocks.

http://www.pontiacsafari.com/EngineCooling/index.htm for anyone wanting to see exactly how the 55-59's were reverse cooled and the changes made for "conventional" cooling in 1960.

Chris Petersen 08-20-2013 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie (Post 5001850)
Steve... this may be of interest... I was drilling a scrap 6x head just below valve cover rail and between the outboard center bolt.... there is a "vein" cast on the centerbolt boss that extends out into the water cavity almost to where the "cooling mod" hole is. I would guess its there to help pull heat away? CV1 heads have a similar feature cast in which IS intended for that purpose.

I drilled along the entire rail looking to see if I could plumb reverse cool similar to the water tubes in the 55-59 heads... seems I can get similar effect that way... 9 holes @ 3/8 id is about same total area as hose id of the early timing cover... and can get close to each valve plus add the extra feed in front of the centerbolt... would be like plumbing a fuel injector rail. Water can exit out the ends on manifold side of head. Very little water actually flows thru the early blocks.

http://www.pontiacsafari.com/EngineCooling/index.htm for anyone wanting to see exactly how the 55-59's were reverse cooled and the changes made for "conventional" cooling in 1960.


Hey Bruce, could you get a few pictures of where you drilled?

I have been thinking of trying what you might be doing. :)

RUDOLFSSON 08-20-2013 11:22 AM

I did the "421 cooling mod" to my combo few years back when I had everything apart for inspection.. Also tapped the 2 front holes in the deck on each bank if I remember correctly.... Every bit helps when you have a block that's almost full of hard block. Plus the cooling flow at the center of each head can't be bad.

Kris.

Tim john 08-20-2013 12:02 PM

Rodney, Please advise your machinists to wear eye protection when running equipment. I have been around a machine shop all my life and have seen some terrible things happen in a fraction of a second. PLEASE make it a shop rule to were eye protection. As for the video, excellent, very well done. Your dad should be very proud of the way you continue to conduct business, present yourself and the family name. We are fortunate to have you and your team designing and building Pontiac power. Thank you for that !

All the best to you and your family.

Tim john---

BruceWilkie 08-20-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen (Post 5003206)
Hey Bruce, could you get a few pictures of where you drilled?

I have been thinking of trying what you might be doing. :)

I'll see if I can get enough light and get a few pics sometime soon.

BruceWilkie 08-20-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 69GTO (Post 5003230)
I did the "421 cooling mod" to my combo few years back when I had everything apart for inspection.. Also tapped the 2 front holes in the deck on each bank if I remember correctly.... Every bit helps when you have a block that's almost full of hard block. Plus the cooling flow at the center of each head can't be bad.

Kris.

Kris...fwiw the early blocks with reverse cool moved very little water through the block. There are two holes just below the big holes on the block face that are approximately 1/2" id. These serve the same function as the thermostat bypass on newer motors. Thats the only "flow" path between pump and block passages, the timing cover is blocked at the big holes. Majority of water is pumped through heads and then out the crossover... remaining water just kind of falls into the block... not much can flow thru the bypass holes. (You dont really need the bypass holes in that system other than faster warm-up). Convection and vibration still lets it cool adequately. Most the liquid cooled two strokes I ever worked on and the few 4 stroke Jap bike motors are similar... water gets pumped in and out of head and water jackets simply get filled by gravity from the heads and have no holes to circulate coolant anywhere. Just convection and vibration "circulating" the block water. 2 strokes generate serious heat.
Study the link above I posted. Plenty to learn there, including changes made when they went to conventional cool in 1960... take note of all deck drillings... early motors had the "421 mod" before the 421 came to be!

Note difference in upper deck holes below crossover... The blocked ones are there to prevent water from the pump shortcutting out the crossover on conventional system. Early rev flow they are open. If you open them on conventional cool system and your temp gauge is in crossover you are likely to read lower temps yet block/head coolant further back likely much hotter due to the short cutting to the crossover... Be careful what you change.

demonic68 11-15-2013 07:40 AM

Loving the info in this thread and a great show it was about time they did a Pontiac motor with real potential


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