Ferrea valves ?
 

Ok building a simple street motor. 455 BUDGET build re-ring, new dish forge pistons, turn crank, old 041 cam FTH, old everything I can.
The HEADS.... old #62 mild porting they have good guides (were knurled at some point) so I need new valves....
Are the Ferrea 5000 series valve good enough for a simple street engine or should I add $150 and step up?
The ONLY reason I am building an ENTIRE engine is due to losing a valve...KILLED EVERYTHING. :( (build date 1995.....maybe 5000 miles since)

I have been out of the hot rod scene for 20 yrs. (Being a dad 3x does that)
So the Manley's go for $350, or the Ferrea 6000 for about the same???
NOTE: i do need the 5.2 length to accommodate the old set-up valve springs install height of 1.800 .

my KRE D ports have 5000 series Farrea valves. been going without issue for more than 20,000 miles.

I don't think you'll ever be in a worse position if you opt to spend a little more on the valvetrain, especially if it's lightening it up. But do I personally think it's necessary given this build, nope.

If the 5000 series valves weren't good for a basic street engine they would not manufacturer or sell them. They are good valves. Save your money.

I knew the guys at Ferrea in Florida which was "right down the street" (10 minutes, 3.5 miles) from Wilson's place.

Ferrea 2600 NW 55th Ct STE 230, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309

Wilson Manifolds, 4700 NE 11th Ave, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33334

I have run a bunch of their valves in "F Projects" over the years.

Wilson Ported a Intake and some 72cc heads for me many years ago.

Tom V.

Very good people and very good valves.

Ferrea 5000 series valves are very good valves for the money and great for builds like yours. I've run them with mild solid rollers and had no issues.

What do you mean by knurled, as in from top to bottom the guide has a groove all the way down it which will allow oil to drip into the intake ports like they always do, which then in turn makes the motor knock since that oil lowers any fuels octane rating.

If that’s the case then I would take that extra 150 you where willing to spend on valves and get .030” wall guide liners installed!

Knurled is NOT a groove top to bottom.

Knurled is like a tiny Hills & Valleys surface finish that traps oil in the voids and because the valve is moving rapidly top to bottom the oil cannot escape.

With the head off of the engine and the valve out, a tool that looks like a deep hole tap, but without the interruptions that would cut a chip, is lubricated and then run down the valve guide hole. The tool is spiraled like a bolt, but does not cut threads, instead it displaces the metal and thereby makes the diameter of the hole smaller. It is then reamed to the proper size according to the diameter of the valve stem + a clearance. The grooves that are left in the guide will actually hold more lubrication than a plain guide. I have pressed in new guides that already had been knurled from the factory, I assume (yes, I know the rule of assume) to provide an extra degree of lubrication.

MORE OIL TRAPPED FOR LUBRICATION but a lot less surface area supporting the valve, especially in a high spring pressure application and you get a lot less durability out of the repair.

Tom V.

Knurleing is a process that is cross hatched and spiral and probably other methods its more of a process title, the process of pushing into metal with a tool to create a rise

A valve guide knurle is alot like tapping threads but instead of cutting the tool pushes into the inner walls of the guides effectively making the guide temporarily to small then its reamed to size for valve operation

Its a temporary fix because the valve is now riding on top of the new knurle ridges which is alot less surface area than a tight smooth guide and if you do not have effective valve seals more oil will pass down the guide , this temporary fix will soon fade away and you will be back to the original loose guide scenario

I dont like thin liners its to easy for then to malfunction over a new chilled iron or thick yellow metal guides

I fully know what a knurled guides ID looks like and have done the process many times myself on heads ( mainly cheap owners who have Chevys ) that people want a cheap repair on, and the process does make a pathway for more oil to leak down the guides it's done on.

In my opinion it has no place being done on a motor that will re-use original valves, nor any motor that will be anything but a grocery getter for the owner, and never be called upon to spin more then 3500 rpm.

Also note that when I knurled guide is fully worn again those guides are now way looser before they where knurled!

thankyou for the inputs....haven't been in IT for many years and things have changed....feedback/research is always the greatest source for success as I am not one to just "take MY word" from a machine shop where I know NOBODY and NOBODY is really Poncho oriented here. There are some tribal secrets about PONTIACS.

Ferrea 5000 series valves are plenty good enough for the build you describe and much better than the factory OE valves. If you had a valve related failure, replace all the keepers with good quality hardened and machined keepers. Ferrea has those. If in fact the valve guides are knurled directly into the OE iron guides, I would replace the guides as mentioned with bronze liners and have them honed to fit. If your machine shop is a Chevy shop, it will take the same liners as a SBC. If they are going to cut the valve seats, make absolutely sure they know the intake seats are 30 degree. DO NOT let them talk them into changing the angle to 45 and ordering different valves. That would be bad advice.

I have Ferrea 5000 in me RA IIs.
I have RA IV valvues inthe 48s, and would prefer 1-piece valves like Ferrea.

Long Stems for 1.7" or 1.8" is quite good.

Knurled guides went the way of SBC rebuild shops.
Thin-leaf guide are nfg.

Pressed-in Iron guides are okay i suppose, but dunno.
Pressed-in bronze guides seem good.
Spiral rifle groove is a feature of most guides i have seen.
Be sure to get positive-seals that match your guide boss dia. .550", .530"

The Ferrea 5000 is all we have ever used in any street build, they are plenty good. NEVER trust 50 year old factory valves though. The Ferrea 5000 is a cheap upgrade compared to what it would cost to repair an engine after the head of a factory valve decides to depart from it's stem LOL

The RAM AIR IV Pontiac Valves were actually a two piece valve joined together.
Years ago, Jim Brady, a PY Member, had the head of a RA-IV valve come off at Broadway Bob's drag strip in Wisconsin one night. Fortunately the engine had just finished a burn=out and was idling towards the starting line when the head came off.
No damage to the engine BUT no more racing that week-end.

ONE PIECE Ferrea Valves are a much better deal.

Tom V.

IRC, from one of the other threads the OP lost a previous engine because the head of a Ferrea 5000 intake valve broke off. Sounded like maybe the bronze guides where loose, I suppose that may have contributed to the failure, but it shouldn’t have happened, I don’t know what else could cause a failure on a Ferrea in a mild street engine other than just some really bad luck or something hitting the valve.

If the plan is to not put a ton of miles on the car with this reringed 455, 041 cam and the knurled guides are tight yet, I would run the guides as is. FWIW, switching to dished pistons on rering bores make sure the ring packs on the new pistons don’t go above the old ring wear pattern, and make sure the skirt clearances are ok.

Intake valves are subject to big temperature swings between there chamber side and valve bowl side to the tune of that change taking place well over 30 times a second at only 4000 rpm.

This produces a thermal swing fatigue that the exh valves do not see, couple this with the fact that a 30 degree seat with a high performance lobe Cam needs more seat pressure then you would think to keep bounce at bay and it’s easy to see why a lot of factory valves that have failed are intake’s

that is my EXACT issue.....

I still can NOT say with 100% certainty WHAT the ROOT cause of the destruction was. :(
1. Did the valve head break off
2. Something ELSE caused the valve head to break??

Those are the unaswered questions....even after teardown...

they are 45* seat heads...... #62

If you used factory valves in those 62 casting then chalk up the failure to them pure and simple !

Let me ask this where did the valve fail, at its stem to head transition, or up at the keeper end?

If it was at the head side then did you or whoever assembled the heads look very closely at them for nicks or deep enough scratches that could have been the source of the failure if it was not just pure fatigue in the the first place?

In short I would get the Ferrea 5000s and sleep well!

valves
 

If you are going to the expense of buying new pistons why not go enough oversize to do the job right? If the bores are sort of good enough for a "rering" a good machinist should be able to hone to a .010 over and have a straight round hole. Billk

Flat-bill Of the pistons offered for Pontiac engines, I see at Jegs, SpeedPro .020, .030, .040, and .060 but not in years have I seen a SpeedPro piston in a .010+ size.

Got a source??

Tom V.