400/455 stroker build
 

I had another thread about potentially pulling the original WS 400 out of my '70 Trans Am and dropping in a 428 that I was running for some time in my '67 GTO. I've decided to change that plan to using a 400/455 stoker build instead of the 428. This eliminates any issues with motor mount adapters with the 428. Here's my basic plan:

455 block (or 400). Bored .030
4.25 Stroker kit from Butler (-8cc flat top pistons)
Aluminum KRE heads from SD Perf. (85cc) or E-heads form Butler (87cc)
HR cam (Stump Puller from SD)
Factory intake CNC-ported by SD

This is going in a '70 TA with an M-21 4-speed and 3.55 rear. I have thought about swapping in a TKX 5-speed as part of this conversion, but that could always happen later.

Thoughts on above build for a street build (maybe a couple of trips to dragstrip ea year).?

Also, are the E-heads a better choice for a street car because they have the provision for the heat crossover? If the KRE heads are fine, do I need to convert carb to manual choke?

I'm just starting to price all of this and was also curious if perhaps just buying a short block from Butler (or maybe even a crate engine (from Butler or KRE)) might be the easier route to go.

Still would not use the original 400 block.

Would go with either a 455 block or a 400 block with all 5 motor mount bolt holes. But NOT a "557" block.

You can put an electric choke on most any carb, including a Q-jet.

Butler sells a ready to assemble short block kit. They supply the machined block. Have to add over $500 to get a forged crank. I'd go with a stock 455 crank before I'd use a cast Chinese crank. But if you use a 455 crank, you'll have to use either a 455 or 428 block.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1459600

Looks like they've had a recent price increase. Looks like going the Butler route, plus alum heads, it's gonna take nearly 10 grand to build your complete running engine, unless you know some cost saving corners you could cut. Is that within your budget ?

Since you live in NJ, you may wanna check with Richie Hoffman. He's built lots of strong Pontiac engines. I think he's on Long Island. He's a member here.

Thanks Ponyakr
Even if I went with a 400 block, I would not use my original RA III block, but I’m working out a deal right now with a fellow PY member on a std. bore 455, so I’m hoping that would be my base.

I figured that this was going to run at least $8000 to do it myself (as opposed to just buying a short block). $2000 for a rotating assembly, $3000 for heads, $2000 for cam/lifters, pushrods, and easily another $1000 (probably more) on having my cast iron intake ported, gaskets, fuel pump, etc.

Am I going down the right path to use the 85cc KRE heads that SD Dave prepares, as opposed to the 74cc ones? I know b-man was recommending I go with the 74cc ones when I was going to run the 428, but I figured things might be bit different with a 467.

I’ll have to take a look at that Long Island shop. Thanks for the suggestion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know where you are in NJ. Spotts performance is located not to far outside of Phila.

https://www.spottsperformance.com/

Stan

depending on your budget, i would go with a 481988 400 block vs a 455, 400's are usually much cheaper & most prefer the 3" mains vs 3.25. with the added savings you could step up to a forged crank vs a cast 4.25. or if you go with a 455 block a cast 4.25 crank isnt much of a benefit vs the N stock crank, a .030 or .060 455 will be plenty big for a street car with minimal track time.

same for the heads, i dont think you need to spend the ~$1000 for port work when out of the box E-heads will flow plenty for a street car thats not going for max hp. what CC size, chamber shape & brand you pick is up to you based on the cam & compression you pick for pump gas. i have a set of box stock 72cc round port E-heads on a 400/467 with OF cam, SD ported factory intake & a q-jet & it makes over 500hp & runs low 11's with ease in a car not really set up for drag racing. stock alum heads should be more than enough & sticking with D ports will save some money on headers. also consider the speed master heads for a lot cheaper than E-heads or KRE. porting is up to you but is not needed for this purpose IMO.

i have the stage 3 ported SD intake & am very happy with it & how it fits under the hood, seemed like the best choice to fit under the hood & run a q-jet, other option was a torker 2 or other low rise intake & a holley but i prefer the qjet & elect choke for a mostly street driven car.

i also chose to use a local machine shop to build the short block vs buying from butler or other bigger places, was a lot cheaper to do it locally at least in my area of the midwest, very reasonable shop prices & if theres a problem you dont have to mess with long distance or shipping the engine or heads back. i did buy the stroker kit from butler & went with a forged crank but saved a lot of $$ doing the short block locally & then assembling the rest of the engine myself.

i have the round port 72cc E-heads & they dont have the heat crossover... unless you plan to drive in cold temps below about 40*f the heat xover isnt a big deal, with the electric choke it starts fine on colder days & with a few minutes warm up time before driving hard it gets some heat into the intake.

nothing wrong with buying the block complete or porting the heads etc but like many people im on a budget with my cars so i chose what was really needed to get it on the road, can always do upgrades down the road if you feel the need.

Budget wise it's hard to beat a Len Williams 455 short-block for $4395: http://www.lenwilliamsautomachine.co...ort_Block.html

that looks like a decent deal... does it include shipping or is that extra? website doesnt have much info on that.

& uses a cast crank which is probably fine but have read some horror stories over the years about those breaking. if he finds a good deal on a 455 block as mentioned, a factory N 455 crank would probably be a safer bet.

I'm sure it doesn't include shipping and also as these are built to order one can upgrade to a forged crank. Len Williams got good reviews by others on this forum using his builds.

http://www.lenwilliamsautomachine.com/Home.html

Iowa to Oklahoma....

9 hr 14 min (632.3 mi) via I-35 and I-35 S

:)


.

yeah one way... 18+ hour round trip. & with the price of brandons gas today it would probably be cheaper to ship it! ;)

i prefer to stay local with the machine shop i use, in house dyno too!

Appreciate all the feedback!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Butler short block kit looks pretty tempting. 10K would be the upper limit of my budget,. Am I correct in thinking that no matter which route I go, I want to keep the CR around 10.25 (with alum heads)?

This is probably a question for the Firebird forum, but would I also need to think about getting frame connectors if I put that much torque into my '70 Trans Am?

"... keep the CR around 10.25 (with alum heads)?

...would I also need to think about getting frame connectors if I put that much torque into my '70 Trans Am?"


IIRC, most here say 10.5 CR is OK, with alum heads. Obviously, 10.25 would give a bit more margin of safety. But, there are always guys who like to stretch the limit & run lot's more. They say they watch the tune real close, & have never had any problems. Others are more conservative & play it safe. The choice is yours.

Connectors couldn't hurt anything, IMO.

Combustion chamber design has an influence on the compression ratio.

How combustion chamber design relates to engine performance
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/02...stion-chamber/


.

If you order your cam and heads from Dave , he will suggest a safe compression ratio, quite often these "85cc heads" are just a starting point. He may mill them to adjust compression ratio.

I put my 463 at 10.3 for pump gas safety down here in this mostly oppressive heat.

Either block will do the job. We do a lot of these, for many different applications, but the most popular one uses Edelbrock D-ports and a hydraulic roller in the 400 blocks. Either route you go, a true 85 or 87cc chamber with these combinations will require the flat top piston. Which generally equates to 10.1-10.25 compression. Even at 10.5, still NOT pushing the limits, is perfectly fine IF the cam profile is correct. That goes for any compression ratio, even with less compression. It's all relative. Butler sells good rotator kits, we get ours through Liberty from Eagle, with the Mahle pistons 1, 1, 2mm ring set and we balance ourselves. Hope this helps.

I like that opional ring pac. I'll have to remember that, thanks for the info.

GT

It's a nice setup for the mild street stuff. Offered in -22cc RD or -6cc FT, depending on the chamber size. Anytime

Here's a 455 block and crank that was listed on marketplace

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ok_story_share