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ram air hood
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I took a road trip and picked up 2 hoods one a 70 and other a 71 ra hood. They have been store for 25 plus years and the ra hood has what looks to be factory screens and boot retainers. I was told it was on a 70 or 71.
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more pics
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please give me insite on this hood anyone.
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the 70 hood
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I plan on having corners repaired and opening snorkle vents. it has 2 chipped corner but vents all in tacked. what you guys think?
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I wouldn't open the scoops unless that is the one you plan to use.
Highest potential buyer might need closed scoops for their car. You never know |
thanks I didn't think of that. I was thinking of using it maybe.
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Scoops have a lip inside opening, originals..
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lios
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Original hoods with or without fresh air, had a block off plate. The EDGE of this plate around the circumference is the "lip" . When the hood was opened up, this lip stayed.
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my hood
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. I don't know.i can make the 70 with that lip that's easy with a osolatimg tool,Dremel or a small hand saw. Looks like a 1/8 or 3/16 lip. It restricts a little air flow thou. Thank you. I think hood is a 71 since ram air sticker different too than 70 I noticed. |
70 & 71 hoods are the same;
I would advocate you use the “71” opened hood, and save the closed hood as-is. All the 70-75 hoods could be cut open and made functional; Most 70-74, and all 75 Formulas were built with the hood left as non functional - so that would mean the closed hood has the most value being left closed. |
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Except for the brace on the hinge area of the hood. :) |
unless my memory is failing me, the brace was something that showed up during the 1972 model run - but maybe it was before the 1972 model run?
I cannot immediately recall when they started showing up, but generally speaking I have observed (and recall) that for 1973+ all had the brace, for 1970 none had the brace, and I had thought that it was safe to assume that all but a few 1971's didn't have the brace either. I am confident I will be corrected if my memory is failing me. |
amendment to my earlier post;
I took 'nacho's quote about the brown hood being a 1971 at face value; I did not see (I was looking on my phone at the time) the presence of the braces. I can now see (probably in part because I am now looking for it) that the second image shows the bracing; With that being said, has anyone just drilled the rivets, removed the bracing, and epoxied over the bracing rivet holes? I will add this; from the "1970 one year only parts" thread: Quote:
I have tried to help with that ongoing thread in the hopes of better compiling all the unique features of 1970 (and to a lesser degree the 70-72) cars for the community; If I have added something in error, I need to be corrected. |
Formula hood history
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Formula hood history
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Here's the problem:
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You can find a myriad of people stating something as fact that they have simply made up, or that is based on part truth. This is the merit of a community like this; You can still have people say untruths, but because of the searchability (ect) of a forum, untruths can be contradicted, and the facts can be better backed up. Social media site posts get buried, and are often hard to find after the fact - You can be in a conversation with a probably well meaning individual one day where he gives you some convincing information, but that discussion pretty much disappears - so if someone with more intimate knowledge of the situation could interject, they probably won't becausue they won't see the discussion. I have seen so much bs passed off as fact on social media sites/groups... it's almost staggering. But to get back to your post; I have NEVER ever heard of 70 Formulas showing up at the dealer with "damaged or broken hoods" - EVER. What I have read time and again is that once the 1970 Formula was put into production, there started being complaints about the hoods tendency to bow in the middle, and that the bracing was added by the 1972(?) model year as a means of combatting the fiberglass hoods tendency to bow. I do not believe there was ever a service bulletin, or service repair issued. (If there is one, I am sure it will get shared) You can see this bowing on most Formulas. I believe the only real "fix" that has been found to work is to simply release the hood when parked in your garage; You can let the hood rest on the catch, but don't let it latch; If my memory serves me, the bowing is a result of the hood hinge's tension - (wanting to open the hood) combined with the resistance from the latch, and is an undesireable result from the fiberglass construction. |
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I should also add, that this was sold to me as a 1971 hood.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1709744337 |
hood confusion
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who is everyone?
You posted once that it was it was a one year hood, and I believe that John echoed this in mistake; My recollection is that any and all prior discussion in the past about these hoods has suggested that it is a 70/71 part - with the braced hood being for sure installed on all 1973 cars. I am ok with being wrong; prove me wrong. Another thought; A 71-455HO Formula that i found ages ago, and my cousin bought, was all original - rusty but original; As I recall, it too had an unbraced hood. |
70 71 hood
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I believe that the braced hood is a 1972 part;
I am unclear on when the change over may have been; It could have been late in the 1971 model year, or it could have been into the 1972 model year. I am unclear on this. I thought I was clear in my understanding that these unbraced hoods were factory installed on 1970 and 1971 model year Formulas. I would also appreciate knowing if anyone has removed the bracing to make a later hood look look like an early hood. |
removing braces
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Here is my '71 Formula's original hood with the 2-12-71 chalk date still on the front bulkhead. It has the full length braces and the Formula's build date on the trim tag is 05B.
Dennis |
Then it's true the non braced is a 1 year only hood or early version and the steel braces is the improved version to prevent breaking at hinges and warping. hmmm
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I believe early in the '71 model year, there were leftover '70 hoods used.
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I'm not real familiar with PMD's reasons for adding the bracing, but that makes sense to me to strengthen the hood. Here are my '70 Formula's hood which has no bracing and is flat, no bows. 04D Date code.
Dennis |
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Dennis |
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Lets say they showed up in 1971; I am totally open to that. By any chance, have you any information recorded which might suggest the change over date? Before this discussion, I have never had anyone assert that the unbraced hood was a 1970 specific part . I think there are simply too many of the unbraced hoods still out there for them to only have been installed on 1970 model year cars. 70-75 Formula production (except SD455) 1970 = 7,708 1971 = 7,802 1972 = 5,249 1973 = 10,123 1974 = 14,461 1975 = 13,670 total = 59,013 7708/59013 = 13% for total Formula production If ‘nacho is right, this hood was only used on 13% of the cars produced; If that is correct shouldn’t they be a LOT harder to find? They are certainly more uncommon than the braced type, but not that hard to find. Getting back on topic, I think it’s worth pointing out that a car built the second week of May would be a late model year car; With September the first and June the tenth (and often last full month of production), that means a May built car was built during the ninth out of ten full months of production. If we assume that the chalk marks on the hood are m-d-y dating format, AND If we assume the date indicates the date the hood was completed as a sub assembly; That means it was manufactured during the sixth month of production (also past the half way point). Curiously, February to May is a very large spread for a part to be produced then find it’s way to production (if that’s what the date signified) - that’s roughly four months! I had understood that production components are typically measured in weeks or less. Is it possible that the chalk mark was done at the dealer? if the chalk mark was d-m-y, that could have been a dealer prep/service mark made on the second of December 1971. I believe it was common for dealerships to mark underhood to record service dates. So if this car is unchanged from factory assembly; AND If the chalk mark is a sub assembly date of manufacture for the hood that means: 1) we for sure have the hood showing up on production line vehicles late in the 1971 model year; 2) we have the possibility of the hoods being installed in the second half of the model year. I will stop guessing here, and let someone who knows more than me weigh in… |
>> Unrujonny >>In the WAY back machine , 2008, we have the 1ST Post in the sticky thread up top of this forum called 70 ONLY parts...hood discussion is NOT new. These bend up and can crack easy, so the reiforcement was added.
>>>>> link to post https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=580525 In 2009 you Posted in this thread that you READ it all.. "> unruhjonny unruhjonny is online now Ultimate Warrior Join Date: May 2004 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 6,213 Jan 1, 2009 post # 102 ok, a friend told me about this thread so I came to see the list... I read it all... <<<<<<<<< I feel compelled to add the following because most of the "1970" parts were either 70-71, or 70 & early 71 parts... 1) red crested 4 speed shifter handle (with shift pattern); presumably an early production run part which replaced the standard black round knob on cars with deluxe interiors. 2) red-crested 3 speed shifter handle (w/o shift pattern); presumably an early production run part which replaced the standard black round knob on cars with deluxe interiors. 3) Muncie 3 speed manual transmission; This was the standard transmission on the 70/71 Formula, and was optional as a "heavy duty" 3 speed in 70/71 V8 base & Esprit models; Pontiac RPO M13, NLA in Firebird after 1971. No offense meant here... Craig and Mike have slapped me a bit when I go astray !! hehe Raimairnacho>> while you "can" open these hoods with a reciprocating saw, the saw blades DRIFT easy with fiberglass. I would HIGHLY recommend using a metal straight edge probably 1/4" inch to do the tops and bottoms. Verify the lip first on the block off on the closed off hood. You Can possibly use a flat file to fix up a wavy one if not too bad. Good luck... |
Formula Production really has NO bearing on the # of R/A hoods.. GASP, but why?
Every 5th dealer had 2-3 IN stock and some on west coast had more. One dealer near me had like 10 in 2007 outback in a broken roof shed and they all were stored wrong and ruined. I will make a guess that probably 6-8,000 "spares" were made for Body shops AT Pontiac dealers and for OTC sales. This is just in US. .. |
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Build date on mine is 05D and date on hood is 5-9-70 |
Wouldn’t the bowing be caused by the same thing that bowed steel hoods, pulling rather than push/ pull? Mine was bowed/warped just forward of the end of hinge, just like my steel hoods.
The hinge wanting to pop the hood open doesn’t make sense, they over spring in the closed position, pulling it down or at least keeping it static. If not, once one popped the hood and released safety, they would fly open. |
I don't have any documentable source , but its highly doubtful that PMD produced the fiberglass hoods in-house. Most likely outsourced them like they did the Endura bumpers.
I wouldn't expect there to be short terms between mfg stencil dates and body mfg dates in too many cases . Also wouldn't be surprised if all non braced hoods were used until exhausted in a running change. And we don't really know when that happened , but you guys seem to be getting a better grip towards it. Good Luck |
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Dennis |
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I never suggested that this discussion was new. What is new to me is someone suggesting with a degree of clarity that the unbraced hood is a 1970-only part. I am pretty sure that the "1970-only" assertion was debunked well before my first post (#102) in that same thread. I could look more through that same thread to find other replies about it but I am fairly confident the "1970-only" assertion was quickly tossed out - which is why the latest compiling had the hood type in the 70-71 category; To be ever more clear, I compiled information from that thread, and while I did add the odd item during the ongoing discussion - the "update" posts I have made were not "my" information; You can find all the items elsewhere in that same thread posted by members other than myself. Everything I have learned about the unique parts for these early cars has been learned either here, or the pre-crash classicalpontiac.com discussion board (I believe I joined that board in the late 90's). The absolute garbage that I have read on social media groups touted as fact is astonishing - and since 'nacho had said he was told a 'story' by someone, which I do not recall reading here, I assumed it was from a social media group. What I am trying to correct here is the assertion that this hood is a "1970-only" part; I tried to be amply clear that I could not recall when the braced hood was phased in, but I was quite confident when I first spoke up in this discussion, that by 1973 they were all braced. Regarding this: Quote:
(no, I didn't miss it in the first post either) Replacement parts is not new. Replacement first version parts are exceptionally rare. I am pretty confident that before the unbraced hood was phased out, demand for replacement hoods would have been very low. Demand would have been much higher a couple years after the '70 Formula came out - and at that time, the hoods would have all been manufactured with the additional bracing. To say that another way, I would think that the vast majority of the replacement hoods would be the later hoods. If 'nacho's assertion of these being "1970-only" hoods is correct, and we add in a small number of service replacement hoods made DURING the 1970 model production run (February 1970 to early July 1970) we would now be looking at numbers well below 10% of the total 70-75 Formula hood production - making the early hood that much rarer - and to me, these hoods are too easy to find to be parts that ceased to be made before July 1970 (which would probably be around the time that 1971 model year parts were being pumped out). But let's pivot for a second; Unmodified cars are fantastic examples for situations just like this. Sometimes these cars are flawed examples because of "lost" service or repair history, but generally they serve as great examples of when parts or assembly methods changed. If that chalk marking on Dennis's Formula hoods is a m-d-y format (which to me seems confirmed by FormulaJones's (1970) hood markings); If the lead time in mid-May (1971) between braced hoods and cars produced was four months; Then that means there was a LARGE stock pile of hoods before May 1971. It shouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to think that the hood type change over likely happened mid way or late into the model year. FormulaJones' 70 Formula seems to be a great example of the typical date spread from sub assembly to production - because that date spread is measured in days, not months. |
1970 unbraced hood
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You have only offered conjecture. If unbraced hoods were really breaking, how come you can still find them fifty-four years later(?). Quote:
It's not a possibility; Weather you realize it or not, you are attempting to rewrite facts. To be a "1970 only" part; It would not have been used on 1971 vehicles. I think I read that same post that you did about a 1971 TA with a twelve bolt; I cannot recall that story or situation; But clearly there is more to the story there. |
proof
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I'm not trying to argue with you or upset you. I like you and you teach me things about my car. I never really questioned if it's really a one year only part but you have a valid point and maybe the older members with wisdom will shine a light on your concern and curiosity. I'd like to know too. |
Why try to be Exact? These are Production cars, for Profit, not hand built and blueprinted cars documented to the bolt markings..
I love learning, and whats correct, but with parts change Pick orders in place, a lot of this stuff will Never be exact. Asking a question here, then asking it on 5 Facebook pages only gets controversy and drama. While a bunch of use do use FB, It would take an Army to actually Defend History, and or originality. I appreciate info here and input.. |
Why try to be Exact? These are Production cars, for Profit, not hand built and blueprinted cars documented to the bolt markings..
I love learning, and whats correct, but with parts change Pick orders in place, a lot of this stuff will Never be exact. Asking a question here, then asking it on 5 Facebook pages only gets controversy and drama. While a bunch of use do use FB, It would take an Army to actually Defend History, and or originality. I appreciate info here and input.. |
Just for the record, my original unrestored 70 RA Formula with it's original date coded hood is unbraced, and it's nice and flat, no bows, no cracking. I've owned the car 30 years and never even knew it was a thing until I read about it here a few years ago.
I have another 70 hood I picked up 30 years ago hanging on the wall that is also nice and flat. I always thought I'd hit a dear with mine at some point since I drive it all the time. Honestly I can't even recall seeing a bowed hood in my lifetime. What I see most often are broken rear corners from people standing them up, or broken rear cowl vent ribs. |
I was always under the assumption the 70 only had no bracing, and starting in 71 we saw the riveted steel plates on the edges. I suppose very early 71 cars could have a 70 hood?
I have a original 70 uncut hood hanging on the wall. Surprisingly it's not bowed like most are. |
hood bowing
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here's what the bowing looks like, this a 71 and i believe it ahs the bracing, i need to check to confirm...you'll see it raised towards the back of the hood, just forward of the hood bracket
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And you guys have braced hoods that are bowed?? That's the opposite of what's supposed to happen according to what I've been reading here.
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It's been my observation that the braced hoods are more often bowed. It's possible those braces were added for some other reason than preventing bowing.
And for the record, my '70 Formula's original unbraced hood also has perfect flushness to the fenders - no bowing at all. |
Interesting idea. I always thought they are too thin to be braces. Maybe they are a safety add on. Perhaps to keep the plastic hood from splitting in two pieces during a crash and coming though the windshield.
I've also wondered why is mostly the passenger side of the hood warps more than the driver side. At least that has been my observation. Maybe the chassis twist flexes the hood in this direction. |
my 71 hood
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interesting thing is about 12 inches above the hinge the "brace" appears wavey...appears better in the pass pic than the driv pic...that bracing is VERY thin, no doubt its usefulness to minimize bowing is quite low....imo
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I became friends with 2 brothers in Santa Rosa area and the younger one had his 73 hood repaired then added Slightly thicker reinforced sides. Another idea would be to pic a more ridged material that doesn't allow hood to.flex as much or will keep it firm. The heat from engine and forces on it from.air flowing through it probably cause it to bow, along with weak hinge area..
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