New Hydraulic Roller Lifter option - Arrow Injuneering / Sealed Power
 

Interesting new hydraulic roller lifter option for traditional Pontiac V8. Claims “Made in USA”, and under $300 (listed at $295) for set of 16.

https://pontiacspeedshop.com/sealed-...0UuhtqBeeFyAJs

Ad says you need their Hydraullic roller retaining system. But I couldnt find that on their website. Wonder how much that is or how it works.

Looks like they have been machined for something like a dogbone?LS lifters?Tom

I saw it on facebook. They said availability of the retaining system is early 2021, and that the package should be cheaper than other retrofit roller lifter setups.

Im curious if the lifters are purpose made or if they are off the shelf SBF or something.

I like it. Ive never been happy with the noise of my comps.

Anti-rotation system comments from Arrow Injuneering:
“We are putting a system we have used since the '80s into production. It's so simple and easy to install that once you see it you won't believe the "Injunuity" of Arrow Injuneering! Coming Early 2021!”

Aren't they the guys that were bring several new cylinder head options to market?

It will be a really nice upgrade if they can come up with a retention/guide system that's pretty much a "drop-in" and allow the use of those style lifters in lieu of the type that require a link-bar.....IMHO.....

JMHO,I started running roller lifters about 1964 and linkbars have never been a issue for me!Tom

I don't mind the retrofit stuff and have never had a problem with what's offered on the market with our Pontiacs, or any other brand engine.

Interesting that people are trying to come up with new ideas, especially for a Pontiac, but I really don't have a need to try it at this point.

Looks like Randy Repp. He is a good dude. Pontiac to the core.

I like the idea of these lifters but it seems kinda silly to have them advertised for sale with no way of keeping them from rotating yet.

In theory they shouldn't rotate as they are two flat surfaces one turning the other, but we all know that it's not a perfect World and you'd better wait for the associated parts to keep them lined up correctly!......LOL...

If plans work out I intend to move to a HR cam and may well give these a shot, pending the anti-rotation system.

I wonder if they got Sealed Power to make these with pontiac specific oil band location, or if they are just the standard sbc ht2148. The picture looks like the sbc lifter, but hard to tell. When I measured up an ht2148 a few years ago it looked like there would be a certain lobe lift you can't exceed or the band will come out the bottom of the lifter bore.

I've always wondered why non-round shaped lifters or lifters with a keyway that would fit in a groove aren't made, with the lifter bore machined to accept a non-round lifter that wouldn't be able to rotate.

Guys!Again,most of the issue with roller lifters have been with virtually ALL makes of hyd roller lifters.Only solid lifter issues for the most part have been in lack of maintenance and most in street applications!The link bars are NOT a real issue.Tom

Food for thought. These look similar in design to GM LS lifters that use the plastic bucket retainers. Those are removed in favor of tie bar lifters due to rotation even with the buckets. This occurs with aggressive cam profiles along with typical engine heat softening the plastic. Seen it first hand. Only takes a few seconds to warrant a new cam. If the retainer for these is plastic, I would shy away.

My other car has a warmed up 6.0 LS in it. 95% of the guys in the LS world are still using the stock lifter buckets with streetable cams. In the LS world that's any cam with under .620 lift and some running up to 240's/250's duration. There are certainly guys running linkbar setups, but most are pushing wild lift/duration cams and spinning well beyond 7,000rpm. If this setup ends up working as well as the GM LS design I'd gladly throw a set in my car with a mid-high .500 lift cam turning less than 6000rpm without any concern.

I was around the LS circles for more than a decade and had 4 LS powered cars over the years, with cam swaps in engines well over 100k miles. Not only did they work flawless for me, I never once heard of this issue from any other LS owner........ever.

That fair. BUT, good retro fit roller lifters are EXPENSIVE. If this more factory style setup can be had at a much lower price point, I think it’s still a worthwhile addition to the shelves. Especially for the mild street guy who wants to upgrade, but balks at the cost.

Or hell even cost aside, how many times have we seen that the Johnson roller lifters are out of stock? Like I said I’m all for more options.

I would like to know where the lift line is for this setup though. I know the gen 6 BBC guys stock using the stock setup at a certain point.

lifters
 

I think this is a viable option. The sealed power lifter is a very good quality lifter. I have run a similar setup using the 2148 lifter and it works well. The limitation I have had is depending on your block and how the lifter bore holes were finished (some have a chamfer from the tooling) the lifter oil hole will come out of the life bore at max lift and this happened somewhere between .385 and .400 lobe lift. This is very block dependent so you need to check closely on your block with your cam. I have experimented with the ls7 lifter and the oil hole is way to high in the lifter i will attach a picture once I get it off my phone. Im glad Randy Is woking on this project as it will be cost effective. The main advantage to this over a link bar lifter is weight. This set up is much lighter than a link bar lifter allowing you to run different valve train components that help extend life and increase higher RPM potential. Just my 2 cents worth.

picture ls7 lifter
 

This is an ls7 lifter on a cam with .377 lobe lift. You can also see the factory chamfer on this lifter hole. This block has 2 holes chamfered like this.

i thought the point of owning a pontiac was so that you could throw buckets of money at half-ass engineered chinese-made aftermarket junk until you got so sick of the noises and your engine running like crap that you sold it all on craigslist. then you finally come to your senses after a few divorces and wind up with a factory iron intake, quadrajet with working choke, exhaust manifolds, and a mild cam. once you are done your car is so mild you never drive it because your third wife always drives it instead of the subaru you bought her.

so you’re not really a pontiac guy until your third wife is cruising around in your gto or firebird while you are driving her subaru and working two jobs to pay the alimony and child support to the first two wives.

you figure out an easy and reliable way to convert a pontiac engine to a factory style hydraulic roller setup, and you will put an end to our way of life!

I believe they are off the shelf LS7 lifters

I had some LS style HR lifters to try on a Stump Puller and the oil band looked way off like it might hang on the lifter bore like a SBC lifter can.

Will the finished product be shown soon?

My work truck has 355,000 miles showing on the clock and has never had a valve cover off. Sure its on the second tranny and the second rear end but all engine internals are original including buckets. Idles perfect and does not smoke.

Yes. Very soon!

You get the impression the pigs are getting fed? Jim Leheart shared an idea, no profit involved, then along comes the marketing department but no one has even tried the dog bone kits.

The question remains, can this new system be converted to the cast iron d-port cylinder heads you were going to offer?

This is not "new" to me. I ran a modified set of solid roller lifters with a plate system for years in a 4 speed, 4.88 geared GTO before any of this fancy hyd roller stuff was available (1981).

After waiting on Johnson to make another run of hyd rollers for our Pontiacs and having delay after delay, I decided to make my plate system available before hearing about the spider which has too many loose parts that need to be modified and lead to failure.

I'm making a single plate system that's adjustable and will be standard equipment on our Injun builds. It's solid and won't be the cause of a failure.

Jim's idea may work great but as for me, no Ford parts will be found in our Pontiac builds.

The AIRLPGS will work with any heads but the cast iron heads are on the back burner.

Hi Matt,
I'm careful not to "claim" anything I can't prove. 24 sets in stock. See attached pics. Lifter prices have been reduced starting at $199. https://pontiacspeedshop.com/valvetr...oller-lifters/

Hi Paul,

All our cylinder head projects are on hold.

Because of the current business climate?

I’m impressed! Now let’s see these in action!

Thanks for your efforts toward improving the Pontiac aftermarket Randy!

Still need more time and money in R&D and right now both are invested elsewhere in the Pontiac hobby. Thanks

sorry havent been following this thread, are these sealed power lifters ready to drop in & run or do they need a plate or link bar of some type?

& whats the difference between the 199.99 & 239.99 lifters?

They require the Arrow Injuneering Roller Lifter Guide Plate System https://pontiacspeedshop.com/arrow-i...-plate-system/

The difference in the two lifters is the way the plunger is retained. The $199 lifter set has the standard wire clip retainer and the $239 lifter sets have the positive snap ring retainers.

Here's a link to the two styles of hyd roller lifters. https://pontiacspeedshop.com/sealed-...oller-lifters/

Arrow Ingineering released info on the roller lifter guide plate system this evening! I’m convinced it’s worth a shot. I do wonder how it will wear over time, but think it’s a nice design.

There’s 2 videos on facebook (arrow Ingineering and Randy Repp’s pages), and the link below shows the plate system itself:
https://pontiacspeedshop.com/valvetr...-plate-system/

wow, they are literally half of what the Johnson short travel lifters run... Its nice to see new options... just wish they came out before I spent a small fortune on the Johnsons.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

I like the idea, how will this work with available lifter bore braces? I wonder how this would work with really aggressive cam profiles.

I'll try and post the videos directly but in the meantime...

https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20566326806180
https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20566339326493
https://pontiacspeedshop.com/valvetr...-plate-system/

Thanks!

Randy,

You try to make a point in the video about high lift cams. As I and others have tried to point out in the various threads about this subject, with a properly designed cam, the high point of the lifter travel is independent of the cam lift. It is the lifter drop that varies with the cam lift. The nose of any properly designed cam will be just a few thousandths below the journal radius. THe base circle of a high lift cam is smaller, so if you want to make a point about high lift cams you should show how much of the lifter flat is above your plate when on the base circle.

Good point. You can see in the video that the lifter is still completely held from rotating when on the base circle of this .400 lobe lift cam. You should check out the latest short video about how the lifter self aligns.
https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20571751861803

Hyd Roller Lifter Oiling
 

One area you don't hear about with the drop in Hyd Roller Lifters is the lifter body going below the oil feed hole in the lifter bore. The measurement is 2.000 from the base circle of the roller cam to the top of the oil feed hole in the lifter bore. This measurement is based on a 1.080 base circle cam.
Using our big .400 lobe lift cams, the Gaterman 1012 lifters still have a little room to spare as pictured in the first two pictures. The Sealed Power HT2148 lifters will expose the oil hole and spurt oil when the cam is on the base circle.
Our .377 lobe lift cams have a 1.135 base circle and work fine with either lifter.
Test your setup prior to firing it up by installing the cam and just placing the lifters in the bores. Keep the valley pan off and use your oil priming tool to prelube the engine and you'll see if it's losing oil. Some oil seepage around the lifter body is to be expected but if it looks like the Clampet's striking oil on the Beverly Hillbillies, you're asking for a rod or main bearing failure.
The key is to use a Hyd Roller cam with a 1.135 base circle or larger on a HT2148 lifter. Let me be clear, it will run regardless but at continued high RPM it will pump the oil to the top and bearings are going to suffer.
For anyone who has built an engine with these lifters and a large hyd roller cam, IF you don't know your cams base circle dimension, call your cam manufacturer and find out.
The hobby can't afford any more Pontiac blocks being destroyed.
Pics on our page at facebook.com/pontiacspeedshop

Will these lifters clear the factory valley pan?

I haven’t used them yet but I can’t see how they’d have a problem. There is no link bar. They are way shorter than the retrofit style.

Murf


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