That is a hell of a first post!

welcome MRDAN!!
excellent questions, too!!!!
please elaborate more on the engine in the GTO.

1973 SD455 T/A
1979 S.E. T/A
http://community.webshots.com/album/16587603rOyvmFCiHs

Welcome and I agree very long, and very precise
good post!

Rodney

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live the Legend"

"WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE!"

Great post MRDAN7.

My initial thought of a different intake was the Holly Street Dominator but in reflection I think it might kill some of the bottom end and since he is running a 3.55 gear I did not think it would be wise.

If he continues to run the Performer RPM would it not make sense to cut the divider down by 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch if it has not already been cut??

I don't think a Victor or Doug Nash, or Wenzler would improve the performance and in fact it could reduce performance.

Comments anyone??

Ron

http://pontiacdragdays.com/GTO4RON.jpg

Hello MRDAN7 and welcome aboard!

Your dissertation was well thought out and helps to shed a different light on badbird68's performance.

Like Larry said . . . more info on your car - and some pics would be nice too!

Later,
Lloyd

'72 Formula 455 - TH400, 3.08 posi, A/C, Y99, tach & gauges, AM-FM stereo, 8-track, Formula wheel, etc.; Lucerne Blue, Blue Deluxe Int; 12.96 @ 104 MPH @ the '03 PSN's

1970 GTO, 455HO, TH400, A/C, 3.07 peg-leg, AM, tach/gauges, tilt wood wheel & cruise, PDB, P/S, power LH seat, rear defog, etc.; Palomino Copper w/ Sandlewood buckets and Sandlewood Cordova top; All there but in need of resto

Soon a body-off resto will begin on a 72 GTO 455HO, TH400, A/C, etc.; Sundance Orange with Ivory buckets

MRDAN7 - Great Post!

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/jimplate.jpg

MRDAN7 --- Welcome aboard. Great Post. Look forward to more input from you in various sections.

Again, Welcome....
Grumpybear.

Quote:

"At one time I saw a post where a ported Pontiac cylinder head was flow tested and the result was 282 cfm. Then various intakes were bolted on to the head and flow tested again to see how much the flow dropped off. With the Victor attached it produced 279 cfm and with the RPM it 273 cfm.
As to the numbers in referance to the size difference, the Victor's average runner length is about 6.82 and the RPM is about 6.28. For the average runner volume the Victor is about 346 and the RPM is about 262.
Here is what Pete McCarthy said about the RPM years ago... "As a dual-plane or 180 degree design, the manifold produces more useable torque in the midrange with some of the larger-port heads than do most of the 360 degree designs."

Steve,

The testing was done by me and several of my friends on a Super Flow 1200 bench that had been
calibrated to match Fords Mega dollar flow stand.

The 282 heads were mine and the testing was done at 25" h2o. I agree with the data and your statement.

See "Victor post" for more info.

Tom V.

http://kurtsplates.homestead.com/files/UR2SLO.jpg

MRDAN7, good post.
Question #1: I only had the intake port matched to my heads. I was thinking of cutting the divider plate down a 1/2 or 1 inch like Steve combes did with his a while back. I have a question my intake is a quadrajet style, with holes to bolt on both a quadrejet carb and holley carb, Do they make a RPM with a holley only square pattern?
Question #2: Going back to my previous combo's none of my motors ever liked more than 34 degrees of timing. I have tried up to 36 and never did anything and usually it slowed down. When i ran nitrous before I set the timing down to 30 and the car almost ran exactly the same as when the timing was at 34. I am going to try to go up to 34 then to 36 because it is a new combo. I locked it down because a couple of my friends run theirs locked down. I have no clue if that helped or not.
Question #3: I shut the engine down at the end of the track to check a plug. I ususally just pull #1 out. When I do check all the plugs there is a difference in a couple of them, but I never got to concerned with that. Like I said I still have to tune on it.
Question #4: I run autolite 85's. I have tried others and these ran the best. I always willing to try other plugs if someone thinks there is a better plug. I run a .042 gap..

68 Firebird 468
#16 D-Ports w RPM intake
10.41 # 130.53
3.55 Gears
Street Car

I would concur. My iron head #48 motors have never liked more than 34 degrees and actually performed best at 32 degrees. I could set it all the way down to 28 degrees for a bottle shot and it didn't slow up more than a couple mph.

The secret to happiness is not getting what you want but rather, wanting what you have.

Hello BadBird, http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...icon_smile.gif Thanks for your answers. As far as I know all E-Performer RPM intakes are made to accept both Spreadbore & Squarebore Carbs. (8 holes,or two bolt patterns)If it were me, I would check all 8 plugs after each run before I unbolted that intake and started cutting.(Cause it is working!)I believe the fuel distribution especially to cylinders #1,& #2 would be improved by removing 1/2 inch of stock straight down the middle, extending to both the primary and secondary sides. But unless you read all 8 plugs when racing, you may never know if you need to. I have found that it is Very common with these E-Performer RPM intakes w/Carbs while running over 500 HP to have 5 plugs show near perfect burns as far as air/fuel goes, and have 3 that are way too Rich, http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...n_confused.gif even with Master Carbs that are set up, and Flow perfectly. It is hard to accuratly tune this intake, but it can be done. On the Timing issue I like more initial timing than others,(60%) & bring in the balance while still maintaining full power. I have found VERY good power increases from 32-36 degrees of total timing.It's whatever works best for your combination as you have stated. Again Your car Looks & Runs Great! MRDAN7 http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

here I go hijacking another thread!

MRDAN7:

I realize that I'm comparing "apples to oranges" concerning my engine's ignition lead vs. badbird68's low 10 second ride, but here's what I've found so far on mine. On the engine dyno, we tried 30, 32, 34 and 36 degrees total, and best pulls were with 32 degrees. Mine isn't locked, BTW - 10 degrees inital and 22 c/shaft degrees mechanical advance, all in at 2800 RPM. I do believe, by looking at your e-mail to me, that ny combo is VERY similar to yours in your GTO, though I'm running more displacement. I've only made 10 passes so far at the track, but I did want to experiment a little with total lead. I baselined the car with 32 degrees, then made two passes at 34 degrees. The car ran darn near identical 60's, ET and MPH, so I reset it back to 32 - my engine is prolly on the ragged edge of detonation since I'm running 93 octane pump fuel. It was dynoed on 93 octane fuel also.

FYI, here's the "SHORT" list on my Formula combination:

4.200 bore 455 (467 CID)
JE pistons, zero decked block, small dome (can't recall the dome volume), calculated comp ratio 9.98:1
Ported 7F6 heads, flowed 276/176 CFM @ 28" on a well calibrated SF bench
2.125"/1.76" Manley SS valves, 45 degree seats
Bullet flat tappet solid, 232I/235E @ .050", .563"I/.573"E lift with the HS "1.65" rockers, 108 LSA, installed per cam card @ 105 ATDC
Recurved NOS Delco point distributor, T.I. Specialties electronic conversion
Stock unported 72 455HO intake, 800CFM SD455 Q-jet, STOCK AC-Delco fuel pump, stock fuel system
R.A.R.E. 2.5" outlet repro SD exhaust manifolds, 2.5" MB X-pipe exhaust system, prototype SINGLE transverse muffler
TH400, NOS L88 converter - flashes to about 2600 RPM
OE 3.08 posi, 15x8" repro Rally II's, 27x10.50 ET Streets at the track

Best pass is in my sig below, and I feel there's quite a bit more left in my combo. The weather that day was dismal - hot and humid with a 20+ MPH headwind. One of my ET Streets was - believe it or not - 15!!! ounces out of balance (must've spun on the rim!). The car was shaking so badly by mid track it was difficult to see! Upshifts were a tad late @ 5600 RPM. Felt like it might have been "nosing over" in high gear - gonna install an electric pusher pump before my next track session.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. My engine builder wasn't surprised at the 32 degrees total lead, BTW, though I was. I expected to be running at least 36!

Later,
Lloyd

'72 Formula 455 - TH400, 3.08 posi, A/C, Y99, tach & gauges, AM-FM stereo, 8-track, Formula wheel, etc.; Lucerne Blue, Blue Deluxe Int; 12.96 @ 104 MPH @ the '03 PSN's

1970 GTO, 455HO, TH400, A/C, 3.07 peg-leg, AM, tach/gauges, tilt wood wheel & cruise, PDB, P/S, power LH seat, rear defog, etc.; Palomino Copper w/ Sandlewood buckets and Sandlewood Cordova top; All there but in need of resto

Soon a body-off resto will begin on a 72 GTO 455HO, TH400, A/C, etc.; Sundance Orange with Ivory buckets

Badbird68, please tell us what your prior flat tappet combination was before you installed the roller, particularly what the camshaft specifications were. Thanks. ED

One who places safety first is, quite specifically, a coward. We do not go to war to be safe, neither do we climb mountains, or race cars, or hunt buffalo, to be safe.

Hi! I'm new to this board and a little bit apprehensive at posting on a subject I personally don't have a lot of experience with, but here go's.
I have a friend who races at our local track (Super Pro). He runs a stroked 400 *hevy (406 cid). He figures it's 520-540 HP although not dynoed. He runs roller cam, victor intake, Dart cast iron heads,Holley (830 CFM?), Turbo 400, 456 gears, mechanical fuel pump, 8" converter and launches at 4400 rpm.
His car is a 69 Fairmont SW wieghing in at 3130# with him in it. As he says, it catches air like a sheet of plywood going down the track. His best to date is 10.18 @ 132MPH.He is footbrake off the line and 60 ft. is 1.36 on 101/2" rubber.

They have raced this combo for ten years adding and changing this and that slowly honing this cars performance. This year they're building a new engine (406 CID)that they say will go 9's at 134 MPH.

The point I'm makeing is that you don't have to throw big money around to make good power. I doubt they have $10000.00 in the whole car.

I CAME, I SAW, I ATE RICE

I will look into checking all 8 plugs. You have a beautiful looking car..
junkyard dog, the cam specs were .521 -.544 and .246 - .256 at .050. the cam was on a 106 centerline installed at 102. I did run 1.60 rockers making the lift around .550 - .573. I still have the cam maybe thinking about selling it.

68 Firebird 468
#16 D-Ports w RPM intake
10.41 # 130.53
3.55 Gears
Street Car

Badbird,

that 106 to 102 ADV centerline reminds me of old times.

MRDAN7,
I agree with the mixture balance priority. That is my reason for keeping the Torker I. Since I achieved excellent plug readings, and it reliably starts the motor in winter driving (that's the real proof of good mixture).

My Summary of this topic's meaning :
My plan has moved to dual Quads, yet Badbird68 has the performance with a single 4-bbl.

HIS

"tbdET/1xxMPH/1.xx 60foot/28"/3.54:1/10"/469 #48/Flat HYD/DualQ-Jets/Offyl/3xx0Lbs
11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Half-Inch Stud:
That is my reason for keeping the Torker I. Since I achieved excellent plug readings, and it reliably starts the motor in winter driving (that's the real proof of good mixture).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Half-Inch Stud - can you post up a little info on what you did to your T1 to get even flow? I'm running one and i'm trying to decide whether to keep it or try something else.

The P-RPM seems like a good choice http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...on_biggrin.gif

Well, I did 2 Torker I intakes for the 455 like this:

the Carb flange got hogged-out to unshroud the PRi & SEcondary flow. Front runners got a major blend, as if the primaries were gonna supply a direct shot. Really that allows a spacer to work well AND allows fuel to get into the front runners&stay off the floor.

Tall-ported the Intake flanges, reaching about 1" inward. and lowered the ports also, then widened them.

Run it, check plugs for color balance , and then peek inside for fuel dripping (well, I had to with the Q-JEt fuel level sensitivity)

I recall that most intakes have 5&7 as the toughest to balance, as they would run rich in my big-cam, Hi-comp combo. The Torker I starts-out with 6,8 5,7 as OK, while 1 & 2 as rich. Suppose I used reverse logic, and opened up the flow to 1 &2 to lean them out....I don't know why it worked that way.

HIS

"tbdET/1xxMPH/1.xx 60foot/28"/3.54:1/10"/469 #48/Flat HYD/DualQ-Jets/Offyl/3xx0Lbs
11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

1/2" It sounds like there are some tuning challenges with the Torker I's as well while using Carbs. Like you mentioned, checking all the plugs may seem old school, but I have determined an inspection of all 8 Plugs for me to be necessary as well. (over & over again) MRDAN7 http://forums.performanceyears.com/g.../icon_cool.gif

Thanks 1/2!

I'm trying to "super tune" what I have before spending on new "go fast" stuff. So far ive tuned it from 8.4's 1/8 to a 7.71 in 5 trips to the track with hopefully more to come. Hoping for 7.5's next trip. Seems like there is a lot of power that people don't find in the parts that they already have.