[JLMounce]

While I've been planning to do a complete engine build, current parts and labor shortages are really making mean lean towards doing a quick refresh on my engine along with an oil pan replacement.

It's the one piece that has kept me from getting this car out to an auto-X, the lack of oil control. Any amount of spirited right hand corner even on the street and you can watch the oil pressure dive 10-15 psi.

That being the case, I'm considering purchasing an aftermarket road race pan and I'm leaning towards the nightmare performance offering to upgrade the pump at the same time.

Given the engine will be out and upside down, what is your thoughts on replacing the rod and or main bearings? This engine is an unknown to me for the most part as it was built by the previous owner back around 97-98. It sat for about 16 years while I worked on the car. I replaced the cam and top end back in 2015 and was able to get a look through the lifter galley. I know it has factory rods and a standard 455 N crank with SpeedPro pistons. It does not appear to have upgraded rod hardware, but it was hard to really get a look at that. The engine keeps good oil pressure driving around, but only holds about 12psi at warm idle.

I don't have any real indication that the bearings could be bad, just the knowledge that the engine is 25+ years from it's rebuild and I've put about 30K on it myself.

I'm fairly positive that the rod bolts are factory. When I took off the factory type heads, factory head bolts were used, so I'm making an assumption that it's got factory hardware beneath as well.

How far would you go on this, sans a complete tear-down and rebuild? Would you simply replace the oil pan and pump, or would you start replacing what bearings you can get to along with hardware? It may be moot anyhow, not really knowing what type of bearing hardware is even available right now.

That said, I'd also be open to recommendations on bearing types for a performance street application that see 5-10 passes per year and may see some auto-x where a certain amount of sustained higher rpm is likely.

Thanks all!

[25stevem]

I can tell you with absolute certainty that with the stroke of a 455, it’s size mains and doing sprited type driviing and sustained rev’s of even just 4000 rpm you need a oil cooler and not just a pan with better oil control.

Also in terms of sustained rev’s closer to 4500 those cast factory rods need to go, and go by your hand removing them and not with them failing and punching there way out of the block!

When I changed over from a 400 in one of my cars to a 455 that already had a oil temp gauge I was very surprised at the increase in oil temperature for any given rpm then what the 400 would produce.

[65madgoat]

If the engine is out, I am doing it all. Do it once, do it right. Digging the nightmare pan and pump. But bearings and rods just as important if not more so might as well do it all when out.

[JLMounce]

Yeah my brain would typically say that's how it should be done as well. After the nightmare of the past 4 months with the car in the shop for a transmission, I'm leery of tearing the engine out, this close to spring and handing it off to a machinist, so that can take forever as well.

I may just need to scrap that idea for this season if I want to drive the car at all, then see about doing all of this next winter.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

It's the one piece that has kept me from getting this car out to an auto-X, the lack of oil control. Any amount of spirited right hand corner even on the street and you can watch the oil pressure dive 10-15 psi.

Thanks all!

Right turn with stock pan oil issues has been known for many years.
Spend the Bucks on a dedicated "ROAD RACE" pan or put a Accusump
3 quart oil tank on the car with the recommended plumbing.

Tom V.

[Scott65]

Check rod side clearance for a clue about whether new bearings will help the idle oil pressure. If the bearings look good, and you're not doing a complete overhaul you may wanna run them and save for the complete overhaul.

[65madgoat]

Run it super hard this season and push the limits if until it grenades. Rebuild it properly next winter.

[Skip Fix]

Canton Road race pan. Don't use a Milodon road race baffling not s good.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by 65madgoat

Run it super hard this season and push the limits if until it grenades. Rebuild it properly next winter.

I can't bring myself to do it! My luck, I'd window the block!

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Canton Road race pan. Don't use a Milodon road race baffling not s good.

I've heard good things about the Nightmare Performance pan. would you go with a canton over that?

[grivera]

Have you thought about sourcing a 400 block and just building a separate short block 400/461 with forged bottom end and then transfer your heads over when completed?

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by grivera

Have you thought about sourcing a 400 block and just building a separate short block 400/461 with forged bottom end and then transfer your heads over when completed?

I have thought about that. I actually had initially thought about purchasing a Len Williams short block and doing just that.

[JLMounce]

Looking at a complete short block. 400 4 bolt main with a butler assembly etc. It's .060 over however. Is .120 still the recommended minimum thickness as I've read in the past?

Other than being .060 over it seems like a decent piece. Ohio forged crank, upgraded bearings from Butler's standard kit, ARP2000 bolts, main studs etc.

[65madgoat]

You see this? He sold heads though....


https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts...585403067.html

[tom s]

JMO,do a leak down test and pumping compression test and if all good run it.Maybe do a oil analysis test also.Tom

[JLMounce]

Should have provided more specifics Tom. The short block I'm looking at is fresh from the machine shop and is needing assembled. It has zero run time.

I've verifying things like deck height, piston dish/dome volume etc. to make sure It's in the range my heads need. I was just worried about the fact that it's gone .060 over.

[tom s]

I just took a 60 over 69 WT block to my machine shop yesterday to be checked out.Mag,pressure test,ultra sound bores,confirm deck height,confirm cam tunnel and main bore before I invest any money in pistons.If a 5 more over is good it will give me a good ring selection.Also took my 3in main 4.21 stroke forged crank to be checked out.Baby steps.Tom

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Looking at a complete short block. 400 4 bolt main with a butler assembly etc. It's .060 over however. Is .120 still the recommended minimum thickness as I've read in the past?

Other than being .060 over it seems like a decent piece. Ohio forged crank, upgraded bearings from Butler's standard kit, ARP2000 bolts, main studs etc.

On the non primary thrust walls only. The thrust walls are what take most of the stress.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

On the non primary thrust walls only. The thrust walls are what take most of the stress.

What is recommended minimum thickness on the thrust walls?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Spend the Bucks on a dedicated "ROAD RACE" pan or put a Accusump
3 quart oil tank on the car

Thanks for that. I was going to ask if folks were still using accumulators on Autocross vehicles.

I guess that answer is "yes".

I installed a heap of them on City Buses, but that was decades ago. Never had the chance to take one home. One wonders if they're less expensive at an industrial/heavy-duty parts store, or from the specialist "boutique" racing shops.