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#1
03-24-2018, 08:26 AM
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Torrington Bearing - Cam Sproket
I see Comp/Butler have a cam sprocket with a torrington bearing. Do you still use the stock cam retaining plate with this setup? Is there any power advantage of going this route. Does anyone have any pictures of where the bearing is? Sims used to make a torrington bearing for the cam retaining plate.
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#2
03-25-2018, 06:48 AM
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I question the need for such in any motor like a Pontiac that has a Cam retention plate because even if you are running a hard steel core Cam , if it's machined right and the leading edge from the nose to the first Cam Bearing has been polished over then there should be no issues!
Between the Cam plate and the installed postion of the rear Cam plug you can always set the front to rear play just right to keep a Roller Cam in place.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
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#3
03-25-2018, 04:40 PM
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I am not having any issues. Have run the stock set up for decades. Just trying to leave no stone unturned on the latest build. If it is worth HP I would go that route. I have to buy a timing set anyway.
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#4
03-25-2018, 08:10 PM
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If that Torrington fails I wonder where all those hardened rollers are going to end up?
__________________
1978 Black & Gold T/A [complete 70 Ram Air III (carb to pan) PQ and 12 bolt], fully loaded, deluxe, WS6, T-Top car - 1972 Formula 455HO Ram Air numbers matching Julep Green - 1971 T/A 455, 320 CFM Eheads, RP cam, Doug's headers, Fuel injection, TKX 5 Spd. 12 Bolt 3.73, 4 wheel disc. All A/C cars |
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#5
03-26-2018, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
By the way- I'm still waiting for someone to post a picture of the "new, revised" Sims deal, which [supposedly] now has roller-element bearings both front and rear. The original version had the bearing on the wrong side- didn't serve any purpose, as a Pontiac cam gets pushed forward by its helical gear drive of the oil pump.
__________________
Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} 
Last edited by Jack Gifford; 03-26-2018 at 01:23 AM. |
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#6
03-26-2018, 03:09 AM
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I called up Sims and asked if he was still doing the Torrington style timing chains. Said he was, 180$ if you supplied the timing chain. 280$ if he did. Nice old fellow, answers his phone.
I wondered about the cam hitting the soft plug too. Does anyone have experience with Butlers brass or bronze cam plates ? |
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#7
03-26-2018, 06:42 AM
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
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#8
03-26-2018, 05:38 PM
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Nope, still has the bearing on both sides of the plate, bought three over the last year or so.
__________________
1964 GTO 501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs. 9.76 @ 137mph 1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115 1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112 1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159 2009 G8 GT |
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#9
03-27-2018, 02:26 AM
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So I guess the Sims plate really does have a pair of bearings. I only had my doubts because nobody would post a photo, and I couldn't picture how he "made room" for both of them.
Any photo? Or cross-section drawing?
__________________
Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926}
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#10
03-27-2018, 03:07 PM
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From my conversation with Scott, he makes a retaining plate that is thicker. Then machines the plate for the torrington bearing on each side. He also machines the back of the cam sprocket to compensate for the total added thickness. I ordered mine yesterday. Will post up pics when I receive. Should help reduce some friction under hard acceleration as well as keep ignition timing stable.
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#11
03-27-2018, 05:39 PM
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Has anyone had one of these fail ? Spewing needle bearings. I have never heard of it myself, does not mean it has not happened.
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#12
03-27-2018, 07:47 PM
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The bronze (oilite?)plates that Butler sells are similar to the ones that Kasse uses on Ford's. (Near identical to our Pontiac retainer plate.) Ford uses a round pin vs keyway biggest difference other than bolt location on the retainer.
Agree with Jack... rear of cam wasn't intended to contact the rear plug. Flat tappet cams have a taper that causes cam to only walk one direction. Roller cams don't have the taper and move fore/aft on accel/decell. Personally if clearance allows too much end play I would shim it or make a "wavy" washer with modest amount of tension to minimize walk. Not a fan of needle bearings. A bronze plate with good oil flow should be no more load than the needle bearings anyway. Last edited by BruceWilkie; 03-27-2018 at 08:09 PM. |
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#13
03-27-2018, 07:51 PM
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#14
03-27-2018, 10:16 PM
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cam thrust plate
A word of caution,there are after market original type thrust plates that are .010 under size..The result is excessive end play. It is easy to miss unless every component is checked before assembly.
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#15
03-27-2018, 10:36 PM
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I thought cam walk on Pontiac was controlled by relationship of retainer plate, cam gear, stepped washer, cam bolt. Once properly assembled, there was no way the cam would touch the rear plug.
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www.hobracing.com |
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#16
03-28-2018, 07:51 AM
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 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#17
03-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Haven't heard of any failures yet. I have installed and used five of them in various race and street motors over the last 7 or 8 years. They always looked brand new on tear downs. Very high quality piece.
__________________
1964 GTO 501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs. 9.76 @ 137mph 1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115 1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112 1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159 2009 G8 GT |
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#18
03-28-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
__________________
1964 GTO 501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs. 9.76 @ 137mph 1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115 1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112 1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159 2009 G8 GT |
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#19
03-28-2018, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
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#20
03-29-2018, 01:26 AM
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Thanks for the photo of the Sims setup. Good looking product.
__________________
Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926}
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