[68ragtop]

I found this news disturbing, but I guess not surprising....

Yesterday I was stopped by a neighbor who needed an opinion. She buys a new car every 3-4 years. She is currently shopping for another car & had a deal done on paper. The dealer pulled the car fax report on her current 4 year old car & told her they would have to deduct $2000 from the trade in price because her car shows a lack of service. She temporarily walked away from the deal in amazement. She has been bringing the car to a small local service shop for oil changes & tire rotation. Really the only maintenance the car has needed so far. Not surprising at all on a 4 year old car, right?

So, according to the dealer, there is no continuous service record on car fax, so this hurts the value. She has all the receipts for the service work performed & they said that really doesn't matter. They told her they include a carfax report that goes with all used cars sold & that "blemish" will make the car harder to re-sell. They also told her she should have been bringing it in to the dealer for routine inspections.

I find this disturbing & I am guessing this has been going on for a while. ITs basically forcing people who trade often to stick with the dealers for service work.

I didn't realize carfax has turned into a bully in the used car market.

Anybody else hear of this? My cars would get a big fat black eye. I do all of my own service work including tires, brakes alignments, etc. Like many of you guys, I Stuck a lot of money over the years into equipment so I am service center free. In fact, I think I might have more service equipment than many smaller shops have.

Apparently I am not allowed to work on my own cars unless I want to diminish their value.

What a Joke..... Am I wrong?

[NBF823]

My sister bought a used '13 Legacy for my nephew. All as told to me; After the first month, the dash lights up like a Christmas tree and the the car dies - they have the car flatbeded to the dealer and there's no oil in it. Dealer says they don't know what happened, but the motor checks out good and they return the car.

Two weeks later, someone stops my nephew and says there's smoke coming from your car. Back to the dealer, clutch is toast. Dealer replaces clutch.

One week after that, dash lights up, car dies. Same thing as before - all the oil is gone. Dealer replaces oil, can't find where oil is going, but is a little out of spec, so they're going to replace the motor. My sister says she doesn't want the car any more - fights with dealer, they take the car back, but she looses $1500 over all.

Car is now for sale back at dealer, listed as one owner.

[njsteve]

As a lawyer, I would say that dealer is pulling a scam on her. Tell her to RUN not walk away from that deal.

And if this dealer/carfax conspiring togather to mark down cars that were owner maintained is even remotely true, they are going to have consumer rights lawyers foaming at the mouth over this.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act was created after dealers were trying to void new car warranties if the cars were not brought back to the dealer for routine maintenance. The Act provided that if the dealers were going to do this, they would have to provide the maintenance and parts for free. None of them took them up on the offer.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...ne-maintenance

This carfax/dealer move looks like an attempted end run around the act.

[Stuart]

Doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me, just a dealer making up their own rules.

[The Champ]

Quite simply, I would go to a different dealer.

I don't think this practice is wide spread. I think this particular dealer is trying to decrease his acquisition costs and possibly increase their shops work level (by having customers get all their work done at the dealer).

I think it will back fire on them.

I think intelligent people realize that a Carfax report is not the gospel. It's only a guide. Just because a car has a clean Carfax does not make it a perfect car. It doesn't "prove" that the car has not been in an accident.

So I'd suggest you recommend to your neighbor to try an another dealer on the same model car and see if dealer #2 tries the same crap. I doubt that will happen.

Assuming the deal goes smoothly, I would take a copy of the purchase agreement back to dealer #1 and let them know that not all dealers are as corrupt as they are - and that they have lost her business and that she will be letting all her friends and neighbors know about their practices.

[68ragtop]

To be honest, I had no idea carfax was tracking oil changes & wiper blade replacements.
Seems ridiculous. Fine if the info is there, but absurd to expect it.

[Alvin]

This OP reminds me of the many "flood vehicles" (1,000's more added to the damage pool this weekend and last's TX floods) that are bounced around from one part of the state/country to others that show "original owner" "no damage" when history searched...

Many are never claimed but "dried out" and "repaired" by owners and private shops...then sold and operate for a period of time wo incident until "suddenly" ECM, corrosion, etc. issues crop up.

Q: Can anyone here tell me with actual knowledge & authority as to where the 1,000's of damaged vehicles seen on loaded transporters (Tractor-Trailer rigs) on public roads heading for all points?

Q: Are they "rebuilt" "totaled" "parted-out" "vin-swapped" or?

Often read of warnings about Craigslist etc. "too good to be true 'deals'" months after local flood events private sales of flood vehicles w sellers tip-toeing on the knife-edge of disclosure legalities." I know a local Turk who thinks nothing of "massaging the truth" when he regularly flips his "cars"...and no he doesn't have any dealer license...but still moves 1 or 2 vehicles a month through CL.

Re: OP Interesting of claimed devaluation by dealer...I'd suggest contacting the state Atty General's office with all data of the incident...AND the Mfg's main Customer Service w same.

You know the old scam of "Dealer Extended Warranties" and "discounted oil changes" that are worthless at any other dealership, non-transferable, when dealership goes out of business out of luck w "extended warranty", etc...so how can they demand maintenance & repairs be made @ dealer only?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

To be honest, I had no idea carfax was tracking oil changes & wiper blade replacements.
Seems ridiculous. Fine if the info is there, but absurd to expect it.

Agree. What happens when I purchase wiper blades from (any) dealer like I often do when equipped w a special aero design and self-install them? Based on the OP, even w a receipt would mean nada?

Somehow smacks of "Googlesk" data grabs attempt.

[1beautifuldaughter]

I was told at the dealers with my last two cars that it would not affect warranty if I wanted to maintain my vehicle myself, I was told to keep receipts for parts like oil and filters and I wouldn't have any problem. I never felt comfortable with it but thats what I do. The Irony is that the reason I want to do things myself is because so many ( trained Professionals) don't care about your car as much as when lunch is close, Skip some grease fittings, add too much oil etc. Subjects like this really piss me off, as I'm sure it does many conscientious do it yourselfers.
Still having issues with my new chevy truck, Why is there static coming from the speakers when nothing is on? Dealer. " we didn't hear anything" :us flag: Oh, and if I do any kind of rust proofing I will void the rust Warranty.

[Judge273]

Part of the dealer negioations. My daughter and I went thru that at the dealer too. They sell "only quality new vehicles" and you "trade in crap" if not prepared to walk away.

Salesman to manager to owners son....wait let me run this by my manager. Car fax says its was in an accident. You didn't disclose? Disclose what? Car didn't have an accident. Kid at school backed into her car and paid to fix a bumper.

Are windshield replacements an accident too?

[straycat]

I was talking to a friend the other day about flood cars. He is an adjuster who covers natural disasters such as floods, tornados, hail etc. He told me there are ways to "wash the titles clean" on the cars that insurance companies have totaled. He said if an insurance company has written off a car from a flood etc. the one place it isn't changed is on a Car Fax report. There are competing reporting agencies today that aren't as reputable. Most of those cars end up on the smaller used car lot market. He said there are incalculable scams in the market.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by 1beautifuldaughter

I was told at the dealers with my last two cars that it would not affect warranty if I wanted to maintain my vehicle myself, I was told to keep receipts for parts like oil and filters and I wouldn't have any problem. I never felt comfortable with it but thats what I do. The Irony is that the reason I want to do things myself is because so many ( trained Professionals) don't care about your car as much as when lunch is close, Skip some grease fittings, add too much oil etc. Subjects like this really piss me off, as I'm sure it does many conscientious do it yourselfers.
Still having issues with my new chevy truck, Why is there static coming from the speakers when nothing is on? Dealer. " we didn't hear anything" :us flag: Oh, and if I do any kind of rust proofing I will void the rust Warranty.

Do not want to side track the thread, but I also have a late model silverado. As soon as you pull open the door, it activates the interal elctonics including the speaker system, even though the radio is not on. You may have noticed this before, but all of the headlamp, keys in the ignition, etc sounds come from the speakers. I'll bet if you sit in the truck & wait for electronics to time out, the sound dissapears.

[61-63]

I think the Carfax system is linked to the manufacturer's and other systems (state registration databases, insurance company claims databases, etc.) and updates in those networks are automatically uploaded to Carfax. If you do your routine maintenance at home or have it done at a service point not linked to Carfax there is no way for their system to know it ever happened. I do not think there is a conspiracy between Carfax and anyone. It is unfortunate that maintenance done by home mechanics, who are just as capable if not more so than a lot of dealership people, doesn't show on the Carfax system, but that's the way it is.

Now, what shenanigans dealers try to pull to try and lower their incoming prices and up their sales prices, THAT is another story.

[Chris65LeMans]

If your neighbor buys a new car every 3-4 years, she should be used to getting screwed on trade ins.

[py71lemans]

A friend had a newer Lincoln. bought it used. Stared having problems (Electrical gremlins, Paint peeling in strange places). Car-fax was clean. Ford/Lincoln would not keep repairing it or fix the paint even though she had an extended warranty. someone at that dealer did some digging and found the car had been re-titled.

[tigergto]

I'm assuming when you say dealer it may just be a single salesperson. My advice to that woman would be to let everyone at the dealership know that you believe they are trying to scam you. And not only would you never buy another vehicle there but you will go out of your way to inform others of this disreputable dealership. That sales person may just be acting on his own. Either way there are plenty of other places to purchase vehicles.
Once someone tries to screw me there is nothing they can do to make up for it.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by tigergto

I'm assuming when you say dealer it may just be a single salesperson. My advice to that woman would be to let everyone at the dealership know that you believe they are trying to scam you. And not only would you never buy another vehicle there but you will go out of your way to inform others of this disreputable dealership. That sales person may just be acting on his own. Either way there are plenty of other places to purchase vehicles.
Once someone tries to screw me there is nothing they can do to make up for it.

x1000, especially the last part.

Time for her to find another dealership.

[GT182]

Car dealers are about as honest as politicians. Whether car fax is included or not.

[62cat]

Bought a totaled GMC Yukon out the back door of a new car dealer. The son had a little fun with it. Front frame damage,sheetmetal, front and rear and the bags blown. I repaired it drove it for 3 years then totaled it again when someone ran a stop in front of me. Repaired it then sold it to my boss with a clean Carfax.

[Phil Thompson]

In 2009 I lost my job , wife had a 06 mustang convertible we had bought at ford dealer they said was a program car. CarMax advertises they will buy cars so I took it to CarMax , they made me a lowball offer and report said car had been hit on driver side, I don't know who they use but I came back home and paid for a carfax and it came back clean, who do you believe?