[joegpho]

A good friend of mine had a 79 T/A as his driver way back in his sr. year of HS - 84/85.
I actually tracked the car down about 15 years ago - because I liked it. He didn't want to buy it back, but I've been tracking it ever since. His car had most every option - red with black custom interior, 400/4spd, t-tops. The guy he sold it to never did much with it - it has sat and sat, garaged, fortunately! So regarding options that it doesn't have:

Chrome roof-drip moldings and door sill moldings. These were standard on an Esprit; would these be possible on a t-top T/A? I guess the moldings on the car would be black?

Seat belts; the car has black belts but no custom belts on the invoice. If the car has black custom interior is there no reason to have the custom belts as they were already black? Or, was there some difference in the buckle, like back with the 60s cars?

Super cooling radiator - his car has A/C. Was this a non-A/C option?

The car order form is not clear on these items.

It is a WS6 car. Other than the top stereo, block heater , halogen headlamps and what I mentioned above it has all other options from what I can deduce from the PHS.

[muscle_collector]

post the phs and we will all figure it out. thanks

[joegpho]

The PHS is actually the old onion-paper (microfiche paper) so it would not scan well.
I was able (when I got it) to erase the black marker that was over the invoice amounts and other info.
As such I'll type it out:
Shipped 2-26-79
Shipping weight = 3624
D53 Hood Decal
B84 Bodyside Molding
L78 400
C60 A/C
UA1 HD Battery
A90 p/trunk
C49 electric rear window defroster
A01 tinted glass (all)
CC1 T-tops
BS1 additional acoustical insulation
TR9 Lamp Group
C95 dome and reading lamp
B37 F&R floor mats
D34 RH visor vanity mirror
U83 p/antenna, AM/FM/CB TRI-BAND (this was still on the car when my friend had it)
AU3 p/door locks
A31 PW
U63 AM Radio (car had an aftermarket stereo put in way back)
N33 Tilt Wheel
WS6 Special Performance Pkg
CD4 Controlled Cycle Wipers
B18 Custom Trim Group - Vinyl

Car was Mayan Red (75?) and 19N1 for the interior in black vinyl
MSRP was $9196.55 invoiced for $6927.99
Dealer was 10-464
Terry Shaver Pontiac
Highland, IN

I've seen other cars on line that have both the A/C and HD radiator so the option was possible. I don't know why one wouldn't and have no clue on the differences - perhaps the std. radiator was 3-core and the HD unit was 4-core?

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by joegpho

A good friend of mine had a 79 T/A as his driver way back in his sr. year of HS - 84/85.
I actually tracked the car down about 15 years ago - because I liked it. He didn't want to buy it back, but I've been tracking it ever since. His car had most every option - red with black custom interior, 400/4spd, t-tops. The guy he sold it to never did much with it - it has sat and sat, garaged, fortunately! So regarding options that it doesn't have:

Chrome roof-drip moldings and door sill moldings. These were standard on an Esprit; would these be possible on a t-top T/A? I guess the moldings on the car would be black?

Seat belts; the car has black belts but no custom belts on the invoice. If the car has black custom interior is there no reason to have the custom belts as they were already black? Or, was there some difference in the buckle, like back with the 60s cars?

Super cooling radiator - his car has A/C. Was this a non-A/C option?

The car order form is not clear on these items.

It is a WS6 car. Other than the top stereo, block heater , halogen headlamps and what I mentioned above it has all other options from what I can deduce from the PHS.

Roof drip mouldings were optional on ALL 79 models EXCEPT Y84 (black S/E) & maybe 10th anniversary model) including T-top models. They WERE chrome.

Seat belts differed...depending on which plant car was built...

What are "door sill moldings"?

ALL 400/4speed in 79 were WS6...it was a mandatory thing that year.

[TNTtransam]

My 79 trans am is optioned with both super cooling radiator and a/c

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

You could get the belt-line moldings that went along top of door , back top edge of fenders , and back edge of hood. My 79 4-4-4 had them.

It also had bright dip rail molds.
But is a Non T-Top car.

Custom/deluxe belts were a separate option from custom/deluxe interior.
You could get deluxe belts with std.interior - or std. belts with deluxe interior ...
or std,/std. or dlx./dlx. .... for example.

Black-out tail lights were an option. iirc

HD was 4 core . i bought a new GM radiator in early 90's and all that was available was the 3 core . Disappointed but got it anyway and installed . Kept the 4 core .
Local rad shop had tried twice to fix it and it would leak in a new spot - got tired of R&R'ing it.

Mine stickered for a lil over 10k.
Had everything except T-Tops, Tape player, Pwr Ant., Block heater.
Also had dealer install Luggage rack and trailer hitch.
My youngest brother has car now.

[joegpho]

Nice car, Count - or is it Baron?
I have this habit/hobby of figuring out "what options would need to be added to make this an every-option" car, or how I would want it.

I think I get it now on the Super Cooling Radiator - this would be a 4-core, which in my opinion is a necessity.

The window sill moldings are RPO B85 and were standard on an Esprit, at least according to the car order form.
I didn't see anything on the order form regarding blacked-out tail lights, but I don't have the form to refer to currently.

I'll repost as I don't recall if the car was L (Van Nuys) or N (Norwood) built.
I pretty much have everything figured out except the seat belts.
I wonder if the interior or seat belts were black and one ordered custom belts, how are they different from standard belts? I think probably chrome buckles would be had on the custom belts.

[2manyT/A'S]

ALL 79-81 T/A's and Formula's came with smoked tailights,they were not an option...

Base bird & Esprits had red ones.

The heavy stainless trim mouldings on the doortops/back edge of hood were called Belt Reveal Mouldings.....standard on Esprit & optional on all others except for the S/E's

In those years,I don't believe there were different buckles for the seat belts,Custom Belts were color keyed to the interior.....

Van Nuys cars had silver female buckles & Norwood had plastic ones..

Didn't the 4 row rads go away in around 1975?

I thought 3 row was maximum in the mid to late 70's

[joegpho]

No clue on the radiator - that's why I'm in here asking all of this stuff!
It could be a difference in fin spacing and core size without having another row in the core.

The car I am "thinking outloud about" was Van Nuys built - L in the VIN.

I'm doing all of this thinking as I might buy-to-flip. I think it's neat that it is a 400 car but I'm much more into Formulas and I really don't like T-Tops from a structural and leakage standpoint.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

T-Tops would be okay for a weekend / fair weather type car.
In 1985 when i bought mine - i would not consider a T-Top car at all , it was for daily driver duty - mostly. Would not have bought it if it had holes in the roof .

Was a 1 owner car.
The radiator was 4 core and was 4spd specific (no tranny line ports).
My brother should still have the old radiator stored - i hope . i gave it to him and told him to keep it safe , when he bought car from me in 2002 .

Maybe if TNT's car is a 4-4-4 and still has right radiator - he can shine a light into his radiator and count rows.

The 3 core replacement i bought was a fit-all deal with tranny line ports .
Counter guy "said" it was high capacity improved cooling etc ... whatever.
It worked fine - fwiw

===========================

i was Wrong on seat belts being separate option from custom interior on 79's.
Was applying earlier car logic . Wrong
Can't say whether you could order deluxe belts with Std. interior.
Looked at some B.sheets and window stickers , deluxe belts listed on B.sheets but not listed on window sticker. Inclusive .
YR1 and YS1 are the deluxe belts.

This Black/Black 79 4-4-4 was built in Norwood with Custom Cloth.
Appears to have chrome buckles - best pic i could find showing a buckle .
My car was Van Nuys

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

i know what you mean about having or finding a high content car , and wondering just how close it is to being Full Monte Load .

In the 80's and 90's i "thought" my old car had ALL except Tape player and T-Tops .
Thought only 10th cars could get Pwr Antenna . Didn't know about block heater either - still don't count that really - being in the southeast and its not even a diesel engine. lol

Here are some others we might be over looking :
Body side moldings (mine had those)
Space saver spare (yep)
Door edge guards (nope)
Front plate bracket (nope)

Pic of my Blue 79 , from 85 or 86 with an ex.
She had a Carmel color with Std. Camel interior 79 Bird 301 4bbl Auto when we met in 84 . Then later we found her an ultra-pristine 79 TA 403 Auto in 88 or 89 .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Another 79 with Black Deluxe Cloth from Norwood - low mile original for sale here in classifieds.

Shows a colored plastic or grained metal painted cover over top of a chrome buckle - probably exactly what is in the other picture i posted - that only showed the backsides.

Anyone have pics of Norwood Std interior seat belts front and back sides ?
i "think" the Standards should be different / cheaper looking .

My 79 Van Nuys with Deluxe had color-keyed belts with brushed full metal buckles -
just like the guidelines that 2manyTA's stated before .

=============================

Another thing that seems "maybe" note-worthy ,,, the Norwood car for sale here on PY had body side moldings from factory - that were Stick-On . And he removed them without leaving tracks in the sand .

The 79's i have been familiar with all had the chrome metal base type with rivets - and a colored insert.

Are the Stick-On body side moldings another Norwood / Van Nuys variance ?
Or was this Norwood car just a remote exception ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Found another low mileage (20k'ish) Norwood TA on eBay with factory body side moldings -
Stick-On style .

Found some Non-Black Deluxe Interior, Norwood cars, with charge for color keyed / custom seatbelts . Had color matched painted metal textured buckles.

And some Non-Black Deluxe Interior, Norwood cars, without charge for belts - with the black belts that have the textured painted metal covers.

Never done much data/option crunching on these 79 cars before .
Will probably keep digging.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Are the Stick-On body side moldings another Norwood / Van Nuys variance ?
Or was this Norwood car just a remote exception ?

Roger (OPH) indicated to me about 11-12 years ago that the rivets and metal colored side molding associated with it was dealer installed and that the stick on style was done at the factory by Pontiac. I never really questioned it, it would seem to me that the stick on would be dealer and the rivets would be factory, but I do not know for sure. I had a '79 from Van Nuys and it had listed the side moldings on the build sheet and they were riveted.

[Grand73Am]

I have a Norwood 79 TA that has body side moldings from the factory which are listed on the build sheet. They're stick-on. No rivets in this car .

[Grand73Am]

Here are the 79 TA seat belt bucket types. They came with 3 of the types of buckles on this drawing. They could have the "Deluxe 1", which came in colors, but did not come in black. They could have the "vinyl" ones, which only came in black. Or they could have the "type 2", which also came in colors, as well as in black.

[2manyT/A'S]

Type 2 is the style that I have seen in 79-81 Norwood built F-bodies.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

Roger (OPH) indicated to me about 11-12 years ago that the rivets and metal colored side molding associated with it was dealer installed and that the stick on style was done at the factory by Pontiac. I never really questioned it, it would seem to me that the stick on would be dealer and the rivets would be factory, but I do not know for sure. I had a '79 from Van Nuys and it had listed the side moldings on the build sheet and they were riveted.

That would be MY take...and I'd say that MOST of these bodyside moldings WERE dealer installed (in BOTH styles). They sure RUIN the looks/lines of the car.

[Grand73Am]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

Type 2 is the style that I have seen in 79-81 Norwood built F-bodies.

Yes, I have 2 Norwood 79 TA's and both have Type 2's, both in black.

I have a Van Nuys 79 TA with the Deluxe 1's, in tan.

And I have another Van Nuys car, an 81 Esprit, that has Type 2 belts in gray. I didn't expect to see Type 2 belts in this Van Nuys car.