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DavidATX · 10-16-2003, 01:29 AM

OK, I have a thread posted at first gen firebird...but figured the more people's input the faster and better answers I would get. Here is the situation...I have just bought a 68 Firebird that has factory 4 piston disc brakes in front. I am on EXTREMELY tight budget and bought 15x7 Rally II's for a very cheap price as I like this size and wheel the most. I also received a set of brand new tires with a 60k warranty for free from a client of mine...thus, I am definitely sticking with this size wheel as I can't afford to buy new tires. Alright...having said that. I was doing brake work on the car and as I went along was putting my rally II's on. When I got to the front of the car and tried to put the wheels on the inside center (lug area) of the wheel was rubbing and in complete contact with the caliper of the disc brakes. The backspacing on the Rally II's is 4.5". What are my options for fixing this??? I have had several suggestions including getting a set of disc brakes from a 69 F body which would be smaller, single piston brakes...but does anyone know if that will work with these wheels? Do I have any other options considering my budget and wheels? Thanks!!!

David

DavidATX · 10-16-2003, 01:29 AM

OK, I have a thread posted at first gen firebird...but figured the more people's input the faster and better answers I would get. Here is the situation...I have just bought a 68 Firebird that has factory 4 piston disc brakes in front. I am on EXTREMELY tight budget and bought 15x7 Rally II's for a very cheap price as I like this size and wheel the most. I also received a set of brand new tires with a 60k warranty for free from a client of mine...thus, I am definitely sticking with this size wheel as I can't afford to buy new tires. Alright...having said that. I was doing brake work on the car and as I went along was putting my rally II's on. When I got to the front of the car and tried to put the wheels on the inside center (lug area) of the wheel was rubbing and in complete contact with the caliper of the disc brakes. The backspacing on the Rally II's is 4.5". What are my options for fixing this??? I have had several suggestions including getting a set of disc brakes from a 69 F body which would be smaller, single piston brakes...but does anyone know if that will work with these wheels? Do I have any other options considering my budget and wheels? Thanks!!!

David

68FB400 · 10-16-2003, 07:05 AM

I have the same set up on my '68. One thing to check is there is a spacer plate on my rotors that are approx 1/4" thick. If you're missing these, your rims may be too close to the calipers.

DavidATX · 10-16-2003, 09:45 AM

68FB400....If I were to put a 1/4" spacer on the rotor the lug bolts would not be long enough. I guess I could buy longer lug bolts? Is that an easy swap?

David

68FB400 · 10-16-2003, 07:34 PM

I pulled the wheel on mine tonight. Confirmed the spacer disc is 1/4" thick. The total length of the studs are 1" (after the spacer, they are 3/4"). This allowed plenty of room for my lug nuts. Looking thru the slots in the rim, it is very close to the caliper.

I do not know where to find the spacer plates or how hard it is to replace the studs with these rotors.

I did explore the option of converting to single piston set up, but if you are on a tight budget, may not want to consider this. Other posts have said you can do it for about $200 - $300, but the cheapest I found was about $500+.

This topic is covered often in the suspension forum.

Wayne

DavidATX · 10-16-2003, 08:39 PM

Hey Wayne...thanks for checking that for me. So with 1" lug bolts and 1/4" spacers...there is a enouch thread to bolt downt he wheels? Is any of the threads from the bolt sticking out of the lug, or is the lug half way on?

David

DavidATX · 10-16-2003, 08:50 PM

Wayne...forgot to ask, your backspacing is 4.5" right?

David

68FB400 · 10-17-2003, 09:11 AM

David,
Yes, there is enough thread left for lug nuts. I have capped lugs so can't tell if they would stick thru an open lug nut. Yes 4 1/2" back spacing.

68FB400 · 10-17-2003, 09:14 AM

Pic of the wheel w/out the lug nuts on.

DavidATX · 10-17-2003, 09:28 AM

Awesome wayne...I think you have given me hope. One thing...I have been looking for 1/4" spacers, but for a 5 bolt pattern can only find 5/16". This is really close to 1/4". Do you really have 1/4" or do you think that your measurement might have been off by a hair? If they are 1/4", where did you get them? Thanks a lot man!!!

David

DavidATX · 10-17-2003, 10:20 AM

Wayne...one more thing. These are the factory/standard rotors right?

David

68FB400 · 10-17-2003, 11:16 AM

David,

The spacer is 1/4". Rotors/spacers were in place when I bought the car which seems to be all original so I'm assuming it is accurate. Not sure where you can get the spacers.
Remember, the rotors for the 4 piston brakes are different than the single piston.

Wayne

DavidATX · 10-18-2003, 11:42 AM

Hey wayne...I got some spacers, but all I could find here in town were 5/16". They look EXACTLY like the ones you have and when I measured them, they were somewhere between 1/4" and 5/16". However, I have several problems. I posted about it on the first gen firebird board, so I will just pase it here and maybe you can help.

Alright...pepboys gave me the wrong spacer...so I had to return it and try to find another. NO ONE seems to sell spacers here in Austin, but I came across two that were 5/16" rather than 1/4". Since the measurements were so close, I gave it a shot. Oh, quick note, the guy who gave me the spacers owns a performance shop in Austin. In his showroom was a 1972, and two 1970 trans ams. They were very very cool. The red 70 had a 455 in it. OK, so I get home and anxiously put the spacers on. Well, when I got the wheel back on and spin the wheel, I notice the outside lip of the spacer is rubbing the calipers a little. Well, these brakes need some serious servicing and the calipers have about a 1/2" play in them that I can wiggle back in forth. So I hold the caliper back as far as I can (assuming that is the right spot for it) and spin the rotor with the spacer and it doesnt rub. So I think I have that figured out, unless yall know otherwise. The other thing that concerns me even more is when I get the wheel back on and put the lugs on two or three of them dont seem to line up with the whole in the rim correctly. As I tighten down the lug you can see daylight between the whole for the lug bolt and the lug That aside, I am getting only about half of the lug onto the bolt...is that enough threading to be safe???? I am know I am real green at this car stuff, but geez, this shouldnt be that hard. However, I left the wheel on to just to see how it looked...and of course, just adding the Rally II's looks sweet.

David

b-man · 10-18-2003, 12:42 PM

David,
You will need to have full thread engagment on your lugnuts to have a safe installation, especially so when running a 5/16" thick spacer. A proper fix would be to buy 10 new wheel studs that are about 1/4" or so longer from Pep Boys or NAPA that carry the Dorman automotive hardware that is stored in special metal drawers. Just make sure the spline diameter (where it presses into the hub/rotor) is the same as your present studs. A dab of red Loctite on the splines is a good idea.

You can either press the old ones out and the new ones in, or knock them out and install the new ones with a big hammer and a copper or brass drift (round bar). If you don't have the tools any competent auto store with a press should be able to handle the work for a nominal fee.

Remember, safety first when installing wheels on your car. Do it right.

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DavidATX · 10-18-2003, 07:42 PM

Hey B-man...thanks for the help. Much appreciated. I will be getting the bolts soon. Is that all that I will need? So what do you think about when I tighten the lugs they dont seem to be centered on the whole in the rim? Its only on two or three that it does this.

David

DavidATX · 10-18-2003, 07:45 PM

Hey wayne...how is it that your spacers look very centered? I mean the lug bolt is coming through the middle of the spacer, like they are glued to the rotor. When I put mine on, they rest on the bolts at the top of the rotor. Do you know what i mean?

David

b-man · 10-18-2003, 11:34 PM

David,
Sometimes the lug holes can be worn on steel wheels due to overzealous use of an impact wrench in the past.

Are you starting all 5 lugs first and getting them finger tight (if possible) before tightening them with a lug wrench?

------------------------------
Some say the glass is half full, others say the glass is half empty...I say 'Are you gonna drink that?'
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DavidATX · 10-18-2003, 11:58 PM

B-man...Yeah, I am tightening the best I can by hand first. Not sure what the deal is. I dont think I will get around to the lug bolt issue until later this week.

David

68FB400 · 10-19-2003, 07:40 PM

David,

Yes, my spacer is glued on with contact cement. Holds rather well and can be removed easily if needed.

Not sure what you are describing with your holes not lining up. Can you post a pic of your rim? Sound almost as if you are dealing with the wrong bolt pattern.

455SD · 10-19-2003, 09:49 PM

David

You have the wrong wheels. Later model Rallys will not clear the 4 piston calipers.(as you obviously already know) Ealier Rallys have about half an inch of extra clearance for the brakes. You need a set of earlier wheels. Pontiac never used a spacer from the factory. I wouldn't use the spacers, but I'm not honestly sure if Pontiac made a 15in Rally that will clear these brakes. I am still researching this myself.

Sorry for these low quality pics, but maybe you can see the difference.

Here is a 1970 14 rally

Here is the 15 inch rally you have.

68FB400

Are you sure you have factory rotors? They look like one piece later model rotors in the pic.

Here are two pics of my '67 two piece rotors.

I hope this helps a little.

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