[wwilder9]

I have a local machine shop that quoted me to machine and rebuild my 68 350 engine to stock for parts and labor for 1350, and a quote to do my 73 455 engine to stock for parts and labor for 1600. So is this a good deal? This includes valve jobs and seats in heads and taking blocks to .035, He said they run better looser with the extra .005, And any crank work he has another place do. I don't know if this guy if full of crap or if I should trust him with my original engines. Any opinions on the .035 instead of .030? What other questions should I ask this guy? He did say if I can have forged pistons for more more money. What does everyone recommend. Butler also gave me a 8000 dollar estimate two years ago for my 455 which is way out of my price range. thanks in advance for all replies.

['ol Pinion head]

Personally I wouldn't use him, sounds like the build includes (what use to be cheap) rebuilder quality cast pistons. Most likely the junkers with multiple valve reliefs in the top. Always set down in the hole. Why do you need seat rings?

The last engine I had that was similar, a zero mile fresh rebuilt 400 with new cheap cast pistons & a new generic rebuilder cam, I bought with what ended up being a partscar. Engine was a '72 YS with rebuilt 7K3's. moved it for 1K, less than prob what it cost to "rebuild"

[superdutybob]

.005 clearance on a cast piston will not be a good thing. That's more the clearance for forged pistons. This guys full of crap to me. Steer clear.

[ANDYA]

I hate to say it but those prices to do a quality engine rebuild are way too cheap. The parts alone without any labor or machine work should equal those prices, and if you go with a good set of rods the price should be higher.

To do a quality engine rebuild the machine work needs to be top notch and a lot of care has to be taken on assembly. Everything has to be measured and checked. The parts need to be cleaned and spotless.

The last engine I assembled took me 4 weeks working nights, full weekends and a few extra full days during the week. I measured all clearances and test fitted together various parts of the engine several times before final assembly to make sure everything was right on the money. I remember spending at least 4 hours just washing the block and crank after getting them back from the machine shop to make sure they were spotless.

You want a machine shop that knows Pontiacs and that is going to spend the time to do things the right way. The price that Jim Buttler gave you is more in the ball park.

[njsteve]

My previous three engines (two 455s and a 350 Pontiac) all cost around $4000 each to rebuild including quality parts - forged rods/forged pistons where needed. None of then needed new valvetrain components - only a valve job on the heads. And that was with me and my kids doing all the assembly labor. Having it assembled by a qualified machine shop will run and extra $1000 or so.

[1973Formula]

I spent ~$4000 for each of the last two pontiacs I had rebuilt. Both 455s. That included assembly as a short block. This was from two different shops.

[njsteve]

Your 73 engine has what, 12,000 miles? There's no way I'd let anybody put valve seats in those original heads. That whole valve recession from lack of leaded gas, is a complete myth when you are talking about putting only a thousand or so miles on a car per year for the next hundred years or so.

For that matter why are you considering boring it out at such low mileage? You could probably get by with honing it and installing a new set of standard size rings.

[wwilder9]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. Does anyone have any recommendations of a place I can take the 73 455, I'm in Cincinnati but will ship if I have too. Also what advice can I have on what to replace and what to have done with this motor, without getting too crazy.

[CAM400455]

I would definitely recommend forged pistons and a good set of rods. If you can keep the stock bore, do that. I got some things from Butler(pistons, rods, cam, pushrods, and roller rockers, I think) Talked to Jim Butler about my set up, and he had excellent input on what would work for me. Total parts/labor ended up being right around 4000. My advice would be to steer clear of this guy. Better to spend a little more to do it right than to do it twice. Make sure the shop knows Pontiacs. 455s sometimes had a core shift when being cast, so make sure line bore is checked. I would recommend the block be zero decked as well. Inquire about using a torque plate to bore with. This simulates the head being on the block and torqued down. This allows the bore to be straight and true as opposed to being a little off. Good luck on finding a reputable shop!

[wwilder9]

Engine has high miles, ran when I took it out, so I don't know how much it will need bored till it comes apart, the odometer says 75 k, so 175 k or 275 k ?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by wwilder9

Thanks for the great advice everyone. Does anyone have any recommendations of a place I can take the 73 455, I'm in Cincinnati but will ship if I have too. Also what advice can I have on what to replace and what to have done with this motor, without getting too crazy.

The ONLY person I would recommend is Bischoff (BES) and since you are in Cinci, you are within driving distance. Tony is over in what some of us call "West Harrison" just out on 74 near the Indiana border, right off the highway.
Tony builds anything, and everything he touches makes power, top notch builder that has a reputation that speaks for itself.
My father is having him build a 571 pontiac as we speak, and prices aren't that bad. Matter of fact he is right in the ballpark with most other quality engine builders. A recent quote he provided for another 455 build my father had was actaully much cheaper than your quote from Butler, by a few thousand You can likely even check this forum somewhere, since Tony is behind all the pontiac builds for McCarthey who recently cam out with the ram air V heads. McCarthey has been working with Tony exclusively on those engines, and they are making power.

Tony knows his stuff and he'll build it right. Word of advice, avoid a builder that claims to do the entire engine for $1300, especially one that recommends an extra .035 overbore on a .030 piston. I can't even begin to tell you how bad that's going to turn out

[Formulabruce]

One thing that always costs, and SHOULD be made sure its done, is balancing.
Many engine builders are power freaks, so just make sure you are not overbuilding for a driver.
Stock rebuild doesnt need a combo high volume hi pressure oil pump. High volume is fine.
Stock rebuild doesnt need 1.65 ratio rockers.
Stock rebuild does NOT need the deck resurfaced
Stock rebuild does NOT need the heads shaved
keeping it fairly stock can save you money. On the 68, I would even re use the original Rods on the 350 after mag and sizing and balance.
Good luck!

[Mezzo]

FB, I could not agree more. Stock is stock. I would keep it simple and maybe replace bearing, rigs, hone the cylinder bores, replace valves and valve guides as needed, timing chain, and new apply new gaskets on everything.

[455Grandville]

Unless you're going to be winding the 350 up hard I'd just get ARP bolts and rebuild the stock rods. The big thing when machining a Pontiac during a rebuild is align hone or "dust" the mains.

[2manyponchos]

BES speaks for itself as mentioned above. Good shop with a good rep. Tony does a lot of high end builds. Tony's new shop is located in St. Leon, IN. Exit 164 on I74, just south on SR1. He used to be in West Harrison as mentioned above, but moved probably 5 or 6 years ago. I think "turn key stock" rebuilds at BES are in the $3500-4000 range based on what other folks in the area have described to me.

If you are looking for something a little more scaled back in price, but very good machining on a good quality stock rebuild, look up Cook Engine Service & Machine Shop. 513-377-6643. John and Jack are good people and will take care of you. Tell them Paul or Doug from Batesville sent you.