[Dragncar]

Who still makes the full offset cam key set. Mopar used to and I believe someone else still does. Links ?
Thanks

[Jay S]

Mopar performance quit making them quite a few years ago. Mr Gasket makes a couple, parts stores usually can get them next day.

987G is a 2*, 988G is a 4*

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-987g

[steve25]

Unfortunately when you find these and even if you may only build 1 more motor in your lifetime, it’s time to stock up on these!

[Cliff R]

I can't find my link to it but I believe that Mercendez Benz offers them for one of their engines. Maybe someone with better Google skills than I have can find them.......

[johnta1]

Could try making your own with that price?



Cam Key Calculator

[PAUL K]

We usually buy them off EBay when they are reasonably price. However with the multi-keyed crank sprockets we don't use them much anymore.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

We usually buy them off EBay when they are reasonably price. However with the multi-keyed crank sprockets we don't use them much anymore.

IMO, the Chrysler offset keys are the best fitting and least expensive, if you can find them on E-bay. The Mercedes part numbers are : 6219910467 2 degree
6219910267 3 degree 6219910167 4 degree and 6219910067 5 degree. They average about $10.00 each and are available on-line from multiple sources. Last choice is the Mr. Gasket keys. The most expensive and least accurate. To really dial a cam in, often you need to use the multiple keyway crank sprocket and a key to get within 1 degree if it's that important to you. I am generally a +-1 guy on cam timing so a 9 sprocket crank gear will usually get me there.

[Scott Stoneburg]

I bought the Mr. Gasket set. Ended up getting the cam closest to where i wanted just using the crank sprocket and a straight key. Within 1 degree.

[TedRamAirII]

I have often wondered about just using a stock type Morse Chain and sprockets, but advancing the cam 2 degrees, to make up for wear? is this a good idea? I figure it will lose a little after its "broken in"

[Cliff R]

Don't ever go back and look at a double roller chain after you've put a few miles on your vehicle? Even the highest end double roller chains stretch out considerably after they have been placed in service.

I've been the lucky one to have to go back into a few engines we've done here, usually to freshen them up after several years of pretty hard street/strip use. I recently had this conversation with a board member here when he was having some issues and he went in only to find his high-end double roller chain on billet sprockets with about a foot of slop in it!

We don't hear too much about these things simply because most folks woln't put 1000 miles on their car in the next 20 years. A few of my customers drive their cars a lot and all have had issues with double roller timing sets getting pretty loose after 25,000-30,000 miles.

For my own engines I use the factory 3/4" wide stock type Morse timing sets. My current engine has one in it and I had to remove the timing cover recently due to a coolant leak. The chain was still tight and only very light witness marks on the top sprocket. I do use the older variety with the heat treated gears buying them off of Ebay when they become available. I'm not sure if the current production stuff is as good but it's still better than any of the lower end "bicycle" variety trying to do the same thing......IMHO.

I attached a few pics, the last one is what is currently showing up if you buy a new stock type set, iron gears but still has a USA made chain on it. I wouldn't be afraid to use one.......

[Singleton]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Mopar performance quit making them quite a few years ago. Mr Gasket makes a couple, parts stores usually can get them next day.

987G is a 2*, 988G is a 4*

The problem with these is that the 987G (and the Mercedes key) is a 2 degree offset cam key, which moves the degree wheel on the crank 4 degrees. (the 988G moves it a whopping 8 degrees).

So if looking for fine adjustment changes while degreeing the cam, (less then 3 degrees), these offset keys are lacking. The discontinued Mopar set had a 1 degree offset key that would allow for a 2 degree change.

[Scott Stoneburg]

Originally Posted by Singleton

The problem with these is that the 987G (and the Mercedes key) is a 2 degree offset cam key, which moves the degree wheel on the crank 4 degrees. (the 988G moves it a whopping 8 degrees).

So if looking for fine adjustment changes while degreeing the cam, (less then 3 degrees), these offset keys are lacking. The discontinued Mopar set had a 1 degree offset key that would allow for a 2 degree change.

I. Bought the Mr Gasket set assuming I could, if need be use them along with the 9 keyway crank socket to dial in the degree. . adv. or ret. The cam using the lower gear, and use the offset key to work the other way depending on how it turns out. Just because the keyway says its 6* it may work out to 5 * or 7*. Luckily mine came out close enough using just the bottom sprocket.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

IMO, the Chrysler offset keys are the best fitting and least expensive, if you can find them on E-bay. The Mercedes part numbers are : 6219910467 2 degree
6219910267 3 degree 6219910167 4 degree and 6219910067 5 degree. They average about $10.00 each and are available on-line from multiple sources. Last choice is the Mr. Gasket keys. The most expensive and least accurate. To really dial a cam in, often you need to use the multiple keyway crank sprocket and a key to get within 1 degree if it's that important to you. I am generally a +-1 guy on cam timing so a 9 sprocket crank gear will usually get me there.

Have checked eBay for months for a set of 5 Mopar offset keys...no luck. Thanks for the info on thr nine sprocket timing chain.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Don't ever go back and look at a double roller chain after you've put a few miles on your vehicle? Even the highest end double roller chains stretch out considerably after they have been placed in service.

I've been the lucky one to have to go back into a few engines we've done here, usually to freshen them up after several years of pretty hard street/strip use. I recently had this conversation with a board member here when he was having some issues and he went in only to find his high-end double roller chain on billet sprockets with about a foot of slop in it!

We don't hear too much about these things simply because most folks woln't put 1000 miles on their car in the next 20 years. A few of my customers drive their cars a lot and all have had issues with double roller timing sets getting pretty loose after 25,000-30,000 miles.

For my own engines I use the factory 3/4" wide stock type Morse timing sets. My current engine has one in it and I had to remove the timing cover recently due to a coolant leak. The chain was still tight and only very light witness marks on the top sprocket. I do use the older variety with the heat treated gears buying them off of Ebay when they become available. I'm not sure if the current production stuff is as good but it's still better than any of the lower end "bicycle" variety trying to do the same thing......IMHO.

I attached a few pics, the last one is what is currently showing up if you buy a new stock type set, iron gears but still has a USA made chain on it. I wouldn't be afraid to use one.......

I bought a USA made Morse chain last year and a Lunati 704 this year and think I'll use it with my factory gears which are in good shape. With the shortage of quality offset keys I'm tempted to just install it with the gears dot to dot (12-6)

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

With the shortage of quality offset keys I'm tempted to just install it with the gears dot to dot (12-6)

Don't be.
At least measure where the cam is installed, even if you cannot change the phasing.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

We usually buy them off EBay when they are reasonably price. However with the multi-keyed crank sprockets we don't use them much anymore.

Would you sell a set ? I had a set the Mopar keys around, used the 2 deg key but can not seem to find them at this point.

[Dragncar]

Here is what I am dealing with. 400 block, billet splayed caps so it has been line bored/honed. Last block Whitmore ever did so you know the work is good.
He just fuzzed the block, cut more on the cap side.
The front main you can still make out some of the factory machine work. Some of the mains farther back the factory marks are completely gone.
So I have a .010 under Cloyes set, "Z" chain so its the good German chain. Its not even close to fitting. I do not believe a .005 under chain would fit but have not tried one.
I think there are .004 under chains from Spots available.


First chain is a slightly used roller of unknown origin.

Next chain is a new Rollermaster and it is loser.

Next chain is Cloyed stock type and its a bit better. A 20 $ chain.

[Dragncar]

This chain is a Elgin unit with Morse chain I bought for 10$ on E Bay years ago.
Its the tightest one so far. You can push it in only 1/8".

I have Cloyes std length, 9 key way deal sowing up tomorrow. Its their best set with the "Z" German chain. So we will see where it ends up, but I doubt it can be muchtighter than the Morse chain.

So far the stock type with Morse chain is the tightest and that is why I am interested in the offset keys.
Its like I am in-between a std chain and a "short" chain. A Milodon single idler gear drive would get me where I want but it requires some block drilling and tapping and the crank, rods and pistons are installed. And 450$.

[glhs#116]

Call me superstitious but I think one of the design features of the old chain may have been lost unless you can find a real old chain.

Ever look at any new setup? It always has a rub bar to take up the slack and stop the chain vibrating back and forth. These old V8s don't have that but what they did have on the original chain was a chain that can't flex backwards. If you buy an old chain it comes in a "tank tread" format because the chain can't be bent back on itself by design. All the new chains (new bicycle type and OEM "silent drive" type) bend freely in either direction. Undoubtedly this lets them ship in a smaller box and stack more on a shelf. However, I think this is part of why the newer chains slacken up so quickly. They are free to vibrate back and forth in use in a way that neither the original design (with the original type chain) nor the newer engine designs (with the rub bars) allow...

Sam

[steve25]

Good points Sam!

How's the motor?