[TCSGTO]

The GTO will be down until next year and it's been awhile since I've been to the track so I took my daily driver for some test and tune fun yesterday.
It's an Infiniti M37x awd, 3.7 v6 330hp. Basically a big sporty/luxo sedan with a little giddy up.

I ran with the street cars and was surprised at how fast some of the newer ones ran. Small turnout because of the weather, very few older cars and no Pontiac street cars there which is unusual at Thompson.

I got absolutely smoked by an Audi S4 that went 11.30 @ 121. I know nothing about them but whatever was done to this one worked.

I then got beat by a Jeep Cherokee SRT 8? that went 12.5 @ 107.

A Hellcat Charger (where's wheneaglesfly?) went high 9's @ 144!!! on DOT drag radials looking stock.

Saw a Mustang and Camaro both run well into the 11's with DRs.

When my car is done it should be well into the 10's which by that time will probably have treading water against the new gen powerhouses. It's getting crazy out there!

I did manage a 14.25 @ 97, which is almost exactly what my GTO ran the first time it went to the track when it had a bone stock 400/350 horse w/3.55 & 4 speed. Somehow it seemed so much faster back then.

[Mace1971]

Makes you wonder when the 70's are going to happen again. Then it was skyrocketing insurance, EPA mandates, and the fuel shortage. This time maybe access to automobile "black boxes" by the insurance companies, GPS tracking by Law Enforcement, mandated HP limits or carbon footprint taxes?

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by Mace1971

Makes you wonder when the 70's are going to happen again. Then it was skyrocketing insurance, EPA mandates, and the fuel shortage. This time maybe access to automobile "black boxes" by the insurance companies, GPS tracking by Law Enforcement, mandated HP limits or carbon footprint taxes?

Right. It has to end somewhere. One thing that limits the carnage is that the cars are so much safer and easier to handle. 350-400 HP in a skinny tired,drum braked, manual steering car is a major handful compared to 650HP in a ZR-1 Corvette. That, and the high buy in price eliminates most of the inexperienced drivers.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to these cars in 10-20 years when they become affordable to mere mortals.

[MarkS57]

Yeah, very fast cars are pretty common anymore from all manufacturers. Don't know the numbers but I'm willing to bet RA IV, LS6, Hemi, SCJ, Buick Stage 1, W30 etc production numbers pale to how many of these stupid fast modern cars are out there now. Kinda taken the fun out of it. And lets not forget the electrics, the only killjoy berserkers against these are insurance guys..maybe?
As such, I am working on toning down my 400 cam to an 068 and going for cruising comfort- AC, sound padding etc. One thing these newer cars do not have is the draw and shear presence of a classic- a '65 in my case.

[mgarblik]

Some of your points are coming home to roost around here already. Some of these faster newer cars are 10+ years old now, pretty beat up and beginning to work their way down the food chain. It is not at all unusual to see and hear of high speed police chases every weekend with speeds exceeding 120-130MPH. The results are generally not pretty, with these cars taking down power poles, trees and each other. The politics of the time, which we are not allowed to talk about, ultimately have allot to do with what is legal to be offered for sale to the public.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Some of your points are coming home to roost around here already. Some of these faster newer cars are 10+ years old now, pretty beat up and beginning to work their way down the food chain. It is not at all unusual to see and hear of high speed police chases every weekend with speeds exceeding 120-130MPH. The results are generally not pretty, with these cars taking down power poles, trees and each other. The politics of the time, which we are not allowed to talk about, ultimately have allot to do with what is legal to be offered for sale to the public.

Sad part is, many times you also read about people walking across a street (like Gratiot Avenue or Grosbeck Avenue) being killed by drivers doing well over the speed limit.
Either due to drugs, street racing, or attempting to escape the police after a car-jacking, robbery, etc.

Some of it is the faster street cars but much is the total disregard for the people around them. You can have a fast street car and still drive safely.

Tom V.

[bendutro]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

It'll be interesting to see what happens to these cars in 10-20 years when they become affordable to mere mortals.

Plenty of boost-buggies in the range of 20-somethings. ABS and traction control have saved a lot of lives, despite the drivers' best efforts.

The 03-04 Cobras are stupid fast. WRX STI, Evos. The Audis are quick but utter nightmares to work on. There's ALWAYS someone faster, just enjoy what you drive..

[Blued and Painted]

I use an aftermarket hydraulic scissor jack for light service on my daily driver. It will pic up one side of the car for easy tire rotation, etc.
The same jack won't pic up one front wheel on my GTO.

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by bendutro

The 03-04 Cobras are stupid fast. WRX STI, Evos. The Audis are quick but utter nightmares to work on. There's ALWAYS someone faster, just enjoy what you drive..

Those cars were quick and fun when new but weren't world beaters. It took dedicated owners and hard work to get the most out of them.
In the last 1-2 years every manufacturer is coming out with their own version of a turn-key 10 second car. 9's with some work. I wonder if these cars will be worshiped as time goes on or looked at as a really irresponsible period in automotive history?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

Those cars were quick and fun when new but weren't world beaters. It took dedicated owners and hard work to get the most out of them.
In the last 1-2 years every manufacturer is coming out with their own version of a turn-key 10 second car. 9's with some work. I wonder if these cars will be worshiped as time goes on or looked at as a really irresponsible period in automotive history?

They will be looked at by some as irresponsible cars that should have never been built AND worshiped by those lucky enough to have owned one.......Just like the original muscle cars we love.

[Tom Vaught]

A fellow I worked with on a couple of Ford Projects was a guy named Jackie S.
His opinion on the race track you drove the wheels off the thing. On the street, his opinion was the other people in the vehicle should feel like they are in their living room relaxing in their easy chair. Everything really smooth and CONTROLLED. Most kids on the street are not in control of their vehicles really. They think they are though.

Just saying.

Tom V.

For a long time he held the record for the second fastest vehicle on our Dearborn test track. This was with a high HP Lightning Truck Prototype.
I would never have believed that truck could go around that handling course that fast. A GOOD driver can drive anything.

[Garry Sr]

There's a lot of people that have no comprehension of how fast 700hp really is. It's deadly fast.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Garry Sr

There's a lot of people that have no comprehension of how fast 700hp really is. It's deadly fast.

Garry, that post has so much truth to it.

We had a "mule" (test car) that was making "only" 730 HP with a centrifugal supercharger on it. My big boss used to give the keys to people he wanted to impress.

Most could not safely drive the car on the street. We were lucky some did not get hurt.
The HP/increased torque would come on quickly and the back of the car would move and the people would over correct and into the ditch (or curb) it would go.

Either that or they were so busy keeping the car straight they would miss a gear on the 6 speed manual trans and over rev the engine.

Tom V.

[AG]

I want a Hellcat to drive my family around in.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Garry, that post has so much truth to it.

We had a "mule" (test car) that was making "only" 730 HP with a centrifugal supercharger on it. My big boss used to give the keys to people he wanted to impress.

Most could not safely drive the car on the street. We were lucky some did not get hurt.
The HP/increased torque would come on quickly and the back of the car would move and the people would over correct and into the ditch (or curb) it would go.

Either that or they were so busy keeping the car straight they would miss a gear on the 6 speed manual trans and over rev the engine.

Tom V.

A stick with big power isn't good for a driver who just buys it to impress his friends..they can get you into big trouble quick....

On the other hand..the timeslips of real Pontiac Street cars keep dropping et year after year...but the majority of us are N/A..

Just check out new best threads in just the last month....everybody is getting quicker even our old dinosaurs!

The best feeling in the world is beating a newer muscle car with your own sweat and blood..and way way under the cost of new

[TCSGTO]

Originally Posted by ta man

The best feeling in the world is beating a newer muscle car with your own sweat and blood..and way way under the cost of new

That's a feeling a lot of the store bought supercar set will never know. I noticed most of them farm the work out and drop it off at the dyno to get tuned. The cars are getting so sophisticated the're out of the scope of the average enthusiasts' knowledge not to mention the special tools needed.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by AG

I want a Hellcat to drive my family around in.

Get a TESLA, they eat Hellcats.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by ta man

A stick with big power isn't good for a driver who just buys it to impress his friends..they can get you into big trouble quick....

On the other hand..the timeslips of real Pontiac Street cars keep dropping et year after year...but the majority of us are N/A..

Just check out new best threads in just the last month....everybody is getting quicker even our old dinosaurs!

The best feeling in the world is beating a newer muscle car with your own sweat and blood..and way way under the cost of new

^ TRUTH, the NA cars are truly impressive these days, but you notice the average quick Pontiac these days (NA) is 500+ cid vs the 400 cid of the old days. Much better parts too.

Tom V.

[mgarblik]

Rode in one of those super fast Tesla's 2 weeks ago. It was a fun ride and the 2nd fastest street car I have ever been in. The sensation was more like an amusement park ride than a car. It made no noise to speak of, did not break the tires loose and it is direct drive so no shifts. I think the claim is 759 HP. 2.5 sec. 0-60 and a 10.3 quarter. You program all the stuff you want the car to do on what looks like a giant I-Pad. Then you push the go pedal to the floor. The car does the rest. It's not for me but was a fun ride.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

^ TRUTH, the NA cars are truly impressive these days, but you notice the average quick Pontiac these days (NA) is 500+ cid vs the 400 cid of the old days. Much better parts too.

Tom V.

Readily available ported heads and quite a few roller cam profiles really have helped,plus forums like this.