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#1
09-18-2016, 10:23 AM
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Belt squeal
I finally got the correct brackets for my power steering pump and got my belts all lined up. I put new belts on both the p/s pump and alternator. Now, it's fine at idle but when the engine revs up the alternator belt squeals. I tried tightening it more and it still squeals. The only way I got the squealing to stop was by loosing the belt up some, but now it just seems too loose. If I rev the engine I can see the belt flutter up the grooves of the pullies.
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1967 GTO, 432 (428+.030), 4-bolt mains, factory Nodular crank, scat rods, icon dished pistons, Lunati HR 243/251@.050, .618/.622 lift, Edelbrock 72cc round port heads, 10.5:1, offy 2-4 intake, Edelbrock 650cfm carbs, Super T10 trans (2.64 first), BOP 10 bolt w/ Eaton posi and 3.36 gears |
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#2
09-18-2016, 11:30 AM
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My belts would always squeal no matter what I did until I finally ditched the stupid flex fan and went with a clutch fan.
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'78 Macho T/A DKM#95, 460cid, SRP pistons, KRE 310 D ports, 3" pypes, Hooker 1 3/4" headers, hydraulic roller, 10" Continental, 3.42 gears 11.5 @117.5mph 3900lbs  ([_|_] ##\|/##[_|_]) |
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#3
09-18-2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
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1967 GTO, 432 (428+.030), 4-bolt mains, factory Nodular crank, scat rods, icon dished pistons, Lunati HR 243/251@.050, .618/.622 lift, Edelbrock 72cc round port heads, 10.5:1, offy 2-4 intake, Edelbrock 650cfm carbs, Super T10 trans (2.64 first), BOP 10 bolt w/ Eaton posi and 3.36 gears |
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#4
09-18-2016, 12:21 PM
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Alternator belts need to be really tight. Most people don't realize how tight they really need to be, and are afraid to tighten them where they need to be thinking it will hurt the bearings. Well it won't. The bearings are made for it. You need to get the alternator belt tight enough to where you cannot turn the alternator pulley inside the belt if you grab the alternator fan and try to turn it. Even if it slips a little inside the belt with a lot of force, it's still too loose. You have to have it to where you CANNOT turn it inside the belt. When I did auto starting, and charging systems for a living, loose belts were the number one charging problem we dealt with. The alternator takes several HP to turn when it's charging, so it needs to be the tightest belt on the engine. When you first start the engine, the alternator is under it's highest load, since it's trying to build the battery back up after starting. So it is more prone to squeal right after starting.
The other issue is the fact that the alternator belt goes around the water pump pulley. Where it goes around the water pump pulley, it is only making contact with 1/4 of the circumference of the pulley. Not enough surface area to grip there, so the belt needs to be even tighter. That's why the flex fan made the other guys belt squeal. You just need to tighten the belt more.
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#5
09-18-2016, 12:45 PM
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And then there's the old 80 grit sand paper to rough up the pulley groove and tarter control tooth paste to break the glaze on the belt tricks.
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'78 Macho T/A DKM#95, 460cid, SRP pistons, KRE 310 D ports, 3" pypes, Hooker 1 3/4" headers, hydraulic roller, 10" Continental, 3.42 gears 11.5 @117.5mph 3900lbs ([_|_] ##\|/##[_|_]) |
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#6
09-18-2016, 12:55 PM
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1. Don't EVER use "Belt Dressing". It'll stop the squeal by making the belt slippery.
2. Stamped-sheetmetal alternator pulleys are known to wear. The belt-gripping area needs to be a nice " V ", not a " U ". 3. Pulley alignment is critical for belt life and reducing noise. |
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#7
09-18-2016, 01:11 PM
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Cheap belts or wrong belts would be my guess.
I've seen cheap belts stretch like a rubber band. It may not be but an inch or so in alternator adjustment. When a good belt is tight, IT'S TIGHT, and doesn't 'stretch' tighter. Wrong belts, Belt width has to be matched to pulley groove width. With wrong width belts they (one of the two) has to slip (on the water pump pulley) because it's running at a different speed. The further out in the pulley groove a belt is, the faster it travels. PS belt use to be slightly wider than the alternator belt. The pulley grooves were also a little wider. So, belt width properly matched to pulley groove keeps the two belts speed the same. Mis matched (belt to pulley width) and one of them has to slip on the water pump pulley. No amount of tightening can correct it. Cheap chain store part consolidating, trying to make 'fit-um-all' stuff, just don't work in these situations. Clay
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All the federales say,they could've had him any day They only let him slip away, out of kindness...I suppose Poncho & Lefty |
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#8
09-18-2016, 01:21 PM
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Belts squeal from slipping, tighten, if still noisy replace with correct width, quality belt. Tighten front and back bolts, before releasing tension from pry lever.
Last edited by STEELCITYFIREBIRD; 09-18-2016 at 01:32 PM. |
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#9
09-18-2016, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#10
09-18-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
A lot of chain part store computers list 15 for both. Messed up deal. I really mis the old catalog look it up days. Clay
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All the federales say,they could've had him any day They only let him slip away, out of kindness...I suppose Poncho & Lefty |
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#11
09-18-2016, 02:28 PM
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Yes I agree. I've been to parts stores where they couldn't find something on their computer, and I had to show them how to look it up in a catalog. He said he never used it before. Another parts store clerk a long time ago, asked me if I had an automatic or standard transmission when I set the clutch disk, and pressure plate on the counter, and I asked for a clutch for a 1968 Pontiac 428. I was dumbfounded and at a loss for words momentarily. I felt like grabbing him by the shirt, and dragging him over the counter, and showing him the way out the front door, because that is where he belonged!
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#12
09-18-2016, 03:18 PM
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15/32" for PS belt, 3/8" for Alternator belt. GTOfreek is correct. If you can spin the Alternator, by hand or a wrench on the pulley nut its not tight enough. If the belt isn't correct width, it will not fully engage the "V". Goodyear Belts are now Continental. I had a Rep tell me their Mileage Maker belts were less prone to stretching.
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1968 Firebird 400 RAII M21, 3.31 12 bolt, Mayfair Maize. 1977 Trans Am W72 400, TH350, 3.23 T Top Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. Bill Nye. |
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#13
09-18-2016, 08:19 PM
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There's also a simple V-belt tension gauge tool you can buy for not much money. I bought one from NAPA probably 15 years ago. Probably can still get them there. Or on eBay. There are actually belt tension specifications in the factory Pontiac Service manual for your car. So, with the gauge and the manual, you can tighten them to factory specs. Like Paul said, many people don't realize how tight the belts should be. With the gauge you can tell. Here's a link to the kind of v-belt gauge I'm talking about on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gates-Napa-K...058749&vxp=mtr
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Steve F. |
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#14
09-18-2016, 08:35 PM
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Thank you for all the replies. I verified the belts are the correct width and angle. I got out a bigger pry bar and pulled the alternator tight. No more squeal. I always had adjusted the p/s belt till it didn't squeel when the wheels are tuned at full lock and just pulled the alt belt tight. I didn't realize how much hp the alt actually drew.
The reason for the belt replacement was poor pulley alignment on both the alt and p/s. Now that I corrected both I replaced the worn belts with good quality ones.
__________________
1967 GTO, 432 (428+.030), 4-bolt mains, factory Nodular crank, scat rods, icon dished pistons, Lunati HR 243/251@.050, .618/.622 lift, Edelbrock 72cc round port heads, 10.5:1, offy 2-4 intake, Edelbrock 650cfm carbs, Super T10 trans (2.64 first), BOP 10 bolt w/ Eaton posi and 3.36 gears |
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#15
09-19-2016, 10:43 AM
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I think the more important aspect is the depth of the belts on the pulley.
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#16
09-19-2016, 04:21 PM
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I used a tension tool called "Krikit". I was amazed how tight the belts are per the specs when using the tool. Have never done them that tight by hand in the past!
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#17
09-19-2016, 05:15 PM
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There are two styles of Krikit.
There's one for V-belts, and another for V-ribbed belts. NAPA can get either one. NAPA p/n KR1 for V-belts https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NBGKR1/NBGKR1 NAPA p/n KR2 for V-ribbed belts https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NBGKR2/NBGKR2 The tools are inexpensive, but require care to use properly. Simply popping the Krikit on a belt and taking a sloppy reading can result in over- or under-tightening. |
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#18
09-26-2016, 07:25 PM
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I had a perpetual squeal whenever I got over 3,000 rpm (just when the fun starts). Finally discovered due to input from this board that I had the same width belts for both the alternator and pwr steering. Bought new belts the correct width as stated below and as if by magic, my squeal is gone
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R68GTO 1969 Camaro COPO 427 "RAT'S NEST" |
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#19
09-26-2016, 10:08 PM
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Dealing with this today, the Napa guy said belt widths are the same?....again doesn't know.
Need to find some info on belt width and choices. Any links to charts or reference material.? |
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#20
09-27-2016, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
__________________
1967 GTO, 432 (428+.030), 4-bolt mains, factory Nodular crank, scat rods, icon dished pistons, Lunati HR 243/251@.050, .618/.622 lift, Edelbrock 72cc round port heads, 10.5:1, offy 2-4 intake, Edelbrock 650cfm carbs, Super T10 trans (2.64 first), BOP 10 bolt w/ Eaton posi and 3.36 gears |
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