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#1
09-13-2016, 02:40 PM
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Engine work done-build sheet review
I picked up my 73 455 this weekend from the builder and am hoping some of you can review the build sheet as far as clearances and let me know if there are any red flags or if they seem to be good. I have the engine in my mechanics now waiting for instal and the other work to get the car ready for this much power. It has 6X-8 heads that are milled to 90cc's, a stump puller cam from SD Performance, Crower hippo solid rollers, Performer RPM and a SMI built Q-Jet. Thanks for all the advice and help you all have given me to get me to this point and hopefully it will be in and running in 3 weeks.
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#2
09-13-2016, 03:06 PM
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It says 4.25" stroke.
Is this a 455 block or a 400 block? (doesn't say what size mains are) Says 'stock' piston? and at 4.125" bore? stock 455 block bore is 4.15? stock 400 block bore is 4.12. No length for rods? need longer rods if it is stroked? would like to know what installed height of springs are for the valves? The builder built the engine , not just machined it? 
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#3
09-13-2016, 03:12 PM
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It is a std bore 455. IH was 1.75 on valve springs. I have no idea why he put 400#'s in for this. I asked him for a build sheet after I had already left his shop and he took 2 days to send it to me. I am guessing he didn't do it as the work was done and then looked up or tried to remember these figures from another Pontiac build.
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#4
09-13-2016, 03:43 PM
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That what I figured.
It looked like he just checked off stuff. It is a stroked crank, though? Or did he just write that, not knowing the actual stroke of a 455?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#5
09-13-2016, 03:52 PM
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My guess is he screwed up the stroke of the crank as from what I know it is a standard 455 stroke. Once I get some feedback from here I am going to call him about it. I think based on what he said about getting a build sheet is this was done after the fact and explains the errors but I would have appreciated him just being honest and telling me that ahead of time. Thanks for pointing that out John, I was going to try and find some stock measurements to check on for myself but I am glad you found those so quickly.
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#6
09-13-2016, 03:53 PM
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Looks like the cam was degreed at 112. Should be at 108. Hard to read though.
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#7
09-13-2016, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by pontibeast; 09-13-2016 at 04:26 PM. |
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#8
09-13-2016, 04:44 PM
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Yeah you just have to take the timing cover back off and get him to set up his degree wheel. If it is truly degreed on a 112 right now then it is 4 degrees retarted. After chain stretch you may end up with 5 or better retarded. Definately get it right or you will lose power. Maybe others can chime in about it.
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#9
09-13-2016, 05:14 PM
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In theory, retarding the cam should push the power band higher in the rpm range and decrease cylinder pressure at low rpm. Reverse for advancing the cam.
Depending on how the lobes are designed however that may or may not be what happens. I know gtofreak talks about this effect, but specific to the ultradyne lobes. I think you need to call your builder and get a straight answer on this.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
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#10
09-13-2016, 06:09 PM
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#11
09-13-2016, 06:19 PM
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455 Olds is 4.125" x 4.250". Wonder if he just looked up the wrong engine to get standard bore and stroke.
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Paul Carter Carter Cryogenics www.cartercryo.com 520-409-7236 Koerner Racing Engines You killed it, We build it! 520-294-5758 64 GTO, under re-construction, 412 CID, also under construction. 87 S-10 Pickup, 321,000 miles 99Monte Carlo, 293,000 miles 86 Bronco, 218,000 miles |
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#12
09-13-2016, 06:39 PM
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Could be.
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#13
09-13-2016, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
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#14
09-13-2016, 07:15 PM
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I bet this fellow did not even degree the cam, he just wrote down the LSA into the blank.
John, is my old checklist still on your website?
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'73 T/A (clone). Low budget stock headed 8.3:1 455, 222/242 116lsa .443/.435 cam. FAST Sportsman EFI, 315rwhp/385rwtq on 87 octane. 13.12 @103.2, 1.91 60'. '67 Firebird [sold], ; 11.27 @ 119.61, 7.167 @ 96.07, with UD 280/280 (108LSA/ 109 ICL)solid cam. [1.537, 7.233 @93.61, 11.46 @ 115.4 w/ old UD 288/296 108 hydraulic cam] Feb '05 HPP, home-ported "16" D-ports, dished pistons (pump gas only), 3.42 gears, 275/60 DR's, 750DP, T2, full exhaust My webpage http://lnlpd.com/home |
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#15
09-13-2016, 07:27 PM
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I know he did spend a good amount of time messing with the valve train setup. I changed springs and was going back and forth with 1.5 and 1.6 rocker arms and he was having to change IH several times as a result. I want to believe he was good with the build and lousy with the build sheet as I didn't ask for one up front and it took him 2 days to get it to me. His shop was spotless and he has experience with Pontiacs but I will have to see when my local mechanic pulls the timing cover and checks cam position. I thought it was all to easy as he is only 1 hour away from me and got it assembled and machined in 3 weeks. If it does work out well as far as results go I will still use somebody else next time as I like very detailed, meticulous and documented work like what Paul K does here on the board. Chassis dyno will tell the tale most likely.
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#16
09-13-2016, 08:18 PM
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__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates Last edited by johnta1; 09-13-2016 at 08:33 PM. |
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#17
09-13-2016, 08:35 PM
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__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#18
09-13-2016, 09:11 PM
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Very little info. Impossible to have all main and rod clearances exactly the same. No cam degree specs. Bore size impossible. No ring end gap specs. No main bore dimensions. Then there is the heads etc etc. I have 15 pages of data on my last build, probably overkill for your motor, but you are lacking some key info which says something.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
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#19
09-13-2016, 09:24 PM
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The heads were done by a different machine shop and I took the engine to this new guy when my mechanic noticed the cam bearings were in bad shape. I am hoping that the new guy did follow good procedures in the assembly/build of this engine and just does not document things as I and many others here would like. I will find out more I am sure when my mechanic checks the cam instal as far as position. It will be a crap shoot in some sense because at this point I am way over budget and timeline for this car to be done and the only thing I will likely do is have him check and degree the cam and then instal the engine. It is going straight to the chassis dyno that is run by a Pontiac guy here on the forum and if anything is grossly wrong it will probably show itself then. I have plans to tear into it in a year or two to replace the cast rods with a stroker setup from Butler most likely and if funds allow some KRE heads. The ported iron heads will be paired with a 428 block and crank I have that is slated for a third gen Trans AM for the wife. I will just have to wait and see unfortunately as far as the clearances go until it gets done again. I am learning a rather long and costly lesson here on how to buy and setup an engine but it is a good lesson to learn as I move forward with Pontiac builds.
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#20
09-14-2016, 11:33 AM
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What rear main seal & oil pan gasket?
With no real/accurate build sheet if I were you I would have your mechanic pull the pan and at least take a look inside. Just a gasket and less than an hour labor. It may give you more peace of mind and if something don't look good you can hopefully catch it before installing and having to remove again later! Will you run it on test stand for break-in? |
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