[rexs73gto]

If your firebird is running at 180 with the A/C off it should also run at 180 with it on. If your car is at 220-230 then you have a flow problem or you also have an air flow restriction. It doesn't matter wheather the air is on or off it your cooling system is working the ways it should it won't matter. But I will tell you if it's running at 220-230 at hwy. speeds it way to hot. Running at speed give MORE air flow which give better cooling capacity not less. It should go dowwn not up at hwy. speeds. thats a fact of thermol dynaimics. Higher air flow creates cooler temps. You have a problem somewhere. I would check your lower hose first as it probley doesn't have the spring in it to keep it from colapasing when under higher pressure. Your cooling system is working backwards of the way it was designed. Also the rear end gears play very little in the temps of an engine. Rear gears also have very little to do with the way an engine cools & heats.

[68 Firebird]

Everyones car is different and everyone's preference is different.
Debugging temps showed me to trust nothing and test every component.
I would be paranoid when my car hit 195 after a highway run and then noticed
how much better it ran so I removed 160 stat and now run a 180 and temps
around town of 185 and 195 after a highway run. Better idle when cooler out
when motor is up to temp and now have heat.


If it's where your comfortable than enjoy!!!!!!!!

Gerry

[DanC]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

What rear gears are you running?

Originally the Firebird had 2.56 since it is an a/c car, now has 2.73's with 245/60-15 BFG's. The '71 TA had 3.08, '72 Formula 400 had 3.08, the '69 428 Bonne had ?.

Also my lower hose does have the spring in it and I cannot squeeze the hose shut any, so it should not be collapsing. The latest thing I've done is gut the thermostat. That has delayed the warm up (just a little), has my city temp 10* lower, does nothing for the interstate temp.

DanC

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by DanC

Originally the Firebird had 2.56 since it is an a/c car, now has 2.73's with 245/60-15 BFG's. The '71 TA had 3.08, '72 Formula 400 had 3.08, the '69 428 Bonne had ?.

Also my lower hose does have the spring in it and I cannot squeeze the hose shut any, so it should not be collapsing. The latest thing I've done is gut the thermostat. That has delayed the warm up (just a little), has my city temp 10* lower, does nothing for the interstate temp.

DanC

Richen it up a bit and give it some more advanced timing , that will lower the temp.

[Chris65LeMans]

My car likes getting hot when climbing hills - especially at freeway speeds.

I put some Redline Water Wetter in it yesterday, and ran over 10 degrees cooler along the same freeway route (and in same LA heat) as I ran Sunday. It seemed that 220 was the upper limit - which I'm happy with.

I'm running an (allegedly) bored and stroked '69 400 with an 11 bolt water pump, aluminum Champion radiator (with 1.1 bar cap) and dual electric fans with shroud.

So - FWIW - Redline Water Wetter was a really cheap help for me.

[Formulabruce]

Lets look at some facts, some of you have mentioned, and some not.
1. The OP is NOT drag racing and looking for the temp that brings the most power on the 1/4 mile.
2. NONE of us run LEADED fuel, which significantly COOLS the engine, prevents Ping ( remember Gulf No-Nox?)There are lead substitutes, however I do not know if it cools the engine any.
3. Automatic transmissions COOK when run over 200 degrees ( proof everywhere), if your only tranny cooler is in your radiator, here is another reason to make sure your not running too hot.
4. Thermostats. They are listed by their "Static" as in "when they start to open" Degree rating. "typical "Dynamic" rating will be from 10-25 degrees MORE ( full open), depending on engine CR, and the heat exchange capacity of the cooling system.
Typically in a 8.0:1 up to 9.2:1 "static" CR Pontiac engine a 160 T stat with stock cooling will run 180-195 degrees with unleaded fuel at 89 octane.
5. Pontiac built very FEW engines with CR at 10 or over and AC, and built NONE of those after lead was gone from fuel. Pontiac CR was slightly over rated when stock.
The CR we often discuss for heat issues is actually the Static ( resting CR) of an engine. When an engine starts the CR drops off by about 1 whole point to a "Dynamic" CR of a actual running engine
6. Fuel.. E-10 ... Alcohol, while having more octane, has way less density, and causes your engine to run harder to do the same amount of work it might have done in 1968. Fuel mileage range stickers on new vehicles reflect the loss in economy by using alcohol ( e-85) On e10, youll need to enrich your idle mixture to make your engine run at the best temp, and smoother. One way to do this on a stock 4bbl engine is to use a 1976-1979 Q jet with a adjustable idle circuit ( if you want to run a Q jet)( Cliff recommends this style, and I agree)
7. Pontiac DId the homework on cooling, and dealerships repaired them under warranty.
many dealerships carried the 400 panels to increase airflow through the radiator, as well as the top one on the 1970 Firebirds. These are excellent helpers.
8. Actual temp?? The stock GM Pontiac gauges in cars that had them were off by up to 7% These are just glorified warning lights. Some, even with the stock sender are not reading right. Put a IR gun on the T stat housing and verify the temp ( IR gun ( pen) 20 bucks at radio shack) We had bunches come in for overheating, that were not.
All of them ran hotter once the lead was gone, BUt the octane dropped a bit..
9. Gas in the oil, etc.. Running a 160 T stat with the alcohol in todays fuel, still brings the oil temp and cylinder temps over 200, this easily purges the oil problems of the past while allowing the choice to run a colder T stat. In fact you can run a 160 T stat in a STOCK LS GTO engine ( 2006) and it runs in closed loop fine and makes heat.NO codes.
10. Water wetter.. best thing since water! makes heat transfer happen!
Closing, and sorry took so long..we are trying to basically make our old Pontiac engines do the things a new Computer controlled fuel injected engine does. While not impossible with money, and if not drag racing, keeping the CR down ( 8-9 max) and camming the engine for Torque can bring temps down and still have a bit of performance.
Most "driver" Pontiac engines are over built for things its never going to do...

[FrankieT/A]

Two of you guys mention Water wetter, I looked the directions on a bottle and it says, "Add to water and it will increase heat transfer bringing down temps" (I'm paraphrasing). Then it says add to coolant/antifreeze and makes no such claim. Does anybody think it helps in antifreeze? To me, if it does.....its certainly worth 10 bucks.

[kate`s67gto]

Save your money.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

Two of you guys mention Water wetter, I looked the directions on a bottle and it says, "Add to water and it will increase heat transfer bringing down temps" (I'm paraphrasing). Then it says add to coolant/antifreeze and makes no such claim. Does anybody think it helps in antifreeze? To me, if it does.....its certainly worth 10 bucks.

I have found in systems with about 40% or less antifreeze it can negate some of the effects of the antifreeze. IT wont do a thing running 50% or more. I dont have any here but seem to remember that it has some alcohol in it

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

Two of you guys mention Water wetter, I looked the directions on a bottle and it says, "Add to water and it will increase heat transfer bringing down temps" (I'm paraphrasing). Then it says add to coolant/antifreeze and makes no such claim. Does anybody think it helps in antifreeze? To me, if it does.....its certainly worth 10 bucks.

You must have a different bottle. The one I bought does claim to help antifreeze mixtures, too. My results are in my previous post - I forgot to mention that I run 50/50 water/antifreeze.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

You must have a different bottle. The one I bought does claim to help antifreeze mixtures, too. My results are in my previous post - I forgot to mention that I run 50/50 water/antifreeze.

Red Line Oil Racing Water Wetter

WaterWetter® is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30°F. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze. Or it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze systems. Compatible with all antifreezes, including the latest long-life variations

Ok, it says it improves heat transfer of ethylene and propylene systems.

I'm not knocking it I'm asking if it helps. Again it would be worth $10 bucks.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

Red Line Oil Racing Water Wetter

WaterWetter® is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30°F. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze. Or it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze systems. Compatible with all antifreezes, including the latest long-life variations

Ok, it says it improves heat transfer of ethylene and propylene systems.

I'm not knocking it I'm asking if it helps. Again it would be worth $10 bucks.

Works spectacular for me. (over 10 degrees cooler.)

[rexs73gto]

Yes use it it works , the temps go down when you use the water wetter in your system. It is definetly worth the $ 10.00

[70455HOVert]

It's an adjudicant. (sp?)

Learned in HS chemistry how it lowers surface tension on a molecular level...basically it lets the coolant "touch" the block better, and therefore promote heat transfer.

[mogeo]

get the distributor re built!!!!

I had SUNTUNED (on this board) rebuild/ re curve mine. I was NOT getting full advance. My 68 Firebird 400 with AC/ TH400 and 3.23 would do the dreaded temperature creep on the highway. I did ALL the tricks. (Until the dizzy was rebuilt the singular best was changing to an AL rad BTW). However, now the car runs perfect in all situations from idle, to WOT.

Performance is improved as well.

Do the distributor thing. Not enough advance is likely the problem. These things get old/ lazy and stuck.
Best of luck
Rich

[Rack776]

Good greif is this thread is almost friggin' useless,

I checked in here to see what might be causing the same problem in my car...and its like standing in Auto Zone listening to the high school counter help argue about why you need billet aluminum aftermarket parts to fix a simple mechanical issue.

The tips on the lower rad hose and sticking distributer are sound advice I'll try those ideas first. Thanks guys.

[Mister Pontiac]

Meow!

Back to the OP's issue (who I'm sure long ago abandoned any hope of help in this thread...) of "overheating." I hope by now he understands he has no real problem.

Putting all of our comments aside, let's get to the heart of the issue... is his engine okay to drive as is? Absolutely! Just drive the silly thing.

There are literally hundreds of us running higher temps (210+ degrees) on our engines with absolutely no adverse affects. Is it perfect? No. But who cares? Whether ideal or not, it is what it is. Just get out there and drive it.

I do this with mine all the time (yes, in the HOT AZ temps), and even though I want all of mine to run on the thermostat all day in the summer, they just won't. So what? Every combo is different. Some run cooler, and some hotter.

C'mon guys... Enough with the "analysis paralysis." Just drive your cars!

[Chris65LeMans]

My daily driver is an Acura TL that is nearing 140,000 miles. Driving it this long necessitated joining a forum that focuses on it so that I can diagnose problems. (It has a computer diagnostic system; but the codes are usually wrong.)

Honda automatic transmissions in their V6 cars are "poor" by Japanese car standards (They will die at 90 - 100K miles). This would be considered "excellent" by Ford.

The talking heads on that board will always recommend a "$400, 4 hour" transmission fluid change every 15K miles. (it involves changing several electronic switches and filling/driving/draining/refilling.) The board is filled with "what happened?" threads by people who followed these guidelines, spent $2,600 on these procedures, and still got stranded on the side of the road at 100,000 miles. (While I just spent $2,500 on a rebuilt transmission.)

Like the "running at 190 vs. 210" arguments on here, the strong opinions seem to be on the side of "keep throwing handfuls of cash at it." I doubt either of these issues is really that important.

[Region Warrior]

Rocky Rotella answered a question about thermostats and cooling in current issue of HPP may want to check out.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

Like the "running at 190 vs. 210" arguments on here, the strong opinions seem to be on the side of "keep throwing handfuls of cash at it." I doubt either of these issues is really that important.

Its just plain hard FACT that Trannys start to get destroyed over 200 degrees.
ANY method to keep your automatic transmission under 200 degrees will help its life expectancy.