[Baron Von Zeppelin]

64 GTO PHS Baltimore Plant
This appears to have been a 78X 3spd 4bbl
Is "RB" the correct trans code for 3spd ?

Seem to remember Baltimore coding is all wacky ,,, I think.
This car is only physically presenting
Power Steering and Power Brakes
Console , Back-Up Lights , Manual driver side mirror
and some 65 style standard seatbelts

Is there anything missing or added compared to PHS ?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

It has a complete 78XW engine about 100,000 units too early
And a 4spd

Nice solid looking convertible
Skyline Blue , Blue Interior , White Top

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-pontiac-gto-78/

[b-man]

Shame there’s a Chevy air cleaner lid on it instead of the lovely original chrome unit with the short snorkel.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

b-man refresh my memory if you can .
Where is the casting date on 64 - 4bbl intake - - rear - or bottom
And casting dates on 64 - 9770716 heads - - underneath covers - or below the exterior rail
In case the seller wants to get down to brass tacks

Those air cleaners have always been few and far between.
Once in a while I would luck up on a 326 HO car with a painted 4bbl version of it.
The top piece was the same on all the 326 2bbl - but painted

[b-man]

Intake date codes are on the bottom of the intake and head date codes are under the valve covers.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks Bart
I doubt the seller will want to get that deep.
But he could still check the block date on a clean engine pretty easy.

[johnta1]

It has a complete 78XW engine about 100,000 units too early

What's the EUN are you using?

I have it at about perfect for it.



I also can't find my notes on the tranny code, but should be in the GTO 'Bible'? (that is buried at the moment)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The EUN for the original 78X on the PHS / PoP imprint should be perfect.
326254. ( 06B body date)

The EUN for the current 78XW that is installed is about 100,000 units earlier than that.
225103

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Just found an old 2009 post from John V that "RB" is for 4spd Wide Ratio

Still hunting info
Maybe the X on that particular PoP from Baltimore was generic
And it should be a 4spd 78XW engine code.

[johnta1]

The EUN for the original 78X on the PHS / PoP imprint should be perfect.
326254. ( 06B body date)

Hmm...
I copied the info when that it 1st came out and my pic seemed to show a '5' start, your pic in post seems pretty clear.


To me the eun I had fit good, 526254 for a 6B body.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

John
The whole point is the engine now in the car has EUN 225103
That isn't anywhere close whether the PoP number starts with a 3 or a 5

The engine in the car starts with a 2
It doesn't resemble the number on the PoP in any form.
As in it is not the born with engine.

Car was claimed to be numbers matching

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Evidently John V. is the only one left standing who can cross the Chevy code numbers on these.
I googled everything I can think of and can only find RPO codes such as C60 D55 M40 for Chevy

Code 303 and Code RB both equal 4spd
So it was not a 3spd car
78 XW would be proper block code with a 3K / 3.23 posi

Have requested seller to verify the block casting date and gave instructions.

[johnta1]

Car was claimed to be numbers matching

I see what your getting at. ( I just wrote the numbers from POP)




Agree 100%.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Using a couple of John V.'s previous deciphered Baltimore 64's
So far have this :

303 = 4spd
31D = 389 4bbl – GTO use only
321 = Posi
342 = ( this box is usually where power brakes and power steering codes are)
the #2 should represent power brakes
350+366 are combo codes = White line Tires
44C = (this box is usually where radio equipment goes)
the C should represent the AM pushbutton radio with manual antenna
62A = Console

Still 5 more Codes to account for
431
452
461
482
531

I see Back Up Lamps , Dual Speed Wipers , Driver Rearview Mirror
That will be 3 of the 5
I also see Pwr Steering , but that should probably make box 34 into a 3 instead of a 2 (combo of #1 and #2 = 3) maybe.

[johnta1]

From John V's article in Smokes:

box 30 is for 4 speed wide ratio

box 44 - C: Pushbutton AM radio– manual antenna (Pontiac Sales Code 392)
box 45 - 2: Windshield washer w/dual-speed wipers (Pontiac Sales Code 421)
box 46 - 1: Tinted glass– windshield only (Pontiac Sales Code 532)
box 48 - 2: Custom wheel discs (Spinners, Pontiac Sales Code 521)
box 53 - 1: Ivory convertible top
box 62 - A: Floor console (Pontiac Sales Code 601)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thanks John -- Great !
Anything on #431 - possibly back up lamps or driver side rear view mirror

[johnta1]

HD Air cleaner possibly for 431
That's actually the sales code for 431.

Box 43 - 1: Back-up lamps (Pontiac Sales Code 471)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Process of elimination
431 has to be Back Up Lamps

I went ahead and posted it .
Thanks John

Car is really really honest overall
The steel blue-gray accents on ribbed dash trim, heater control, console, all looks original unrestored.
Pretty tight on a convertible 60 years old .

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I got that wrong about the ribbed dash trim , color has been removed.

That's a real pretty color combo , I think it will sell.
Lot of RNM endings on BaT lately.

[John V.]

Baltimore (and KC) code 431 on the PHS Shipping Order Record for ‘64 was definitely for the Back-up Lamps option.

The BaT GTO was NOT factory built with PS. BVZ, you are correct about how it WOULD have been coded if it had BOTH PS and PB.

You can further confirm that PS was NOT a factory option on this build by checking the FAN BELT box. AH- was the single fan belt for a “no option” base V8 build.

Late year with PS would have gotten the 2 belt code AJR or AGF if the build included PS and AC. Early PS builds without AC got the twin 2 belt arrangement and were coded AJ-.

PS could be added by an available Dealer Accessory Package and no doubt some buyers chose to have the Dealer add it at the time of purchase for a car on the lot with the base content manual steering box.

The block for EUN 225103 was cast on or about Jan 6, 1964 (A64) cast date.

The IDENT-O-PLATE imprint on the Shipping Order is pretty tough to read but most likely for a June build began with a 5 and likely read 526254. The block for that EUN was most likely cast on or about June 3, 1964 (F34) or just maybe a production day or 2 earlier.

Not impossible for anomalies showing an unexpected mismatch between EUN and cast date to exist but as you surmised, no chance for the block in the car now to be original as proven by the IDENT-O-PLATE imprint.