[roundportponchos]

I agree,,, with. you

One looks like 1/2 RH 1/4 gone, no mention of all 3 having heads, carbs, scoops(functional) etc etc... The one painted black really looks rough, esp underneath.

Great cars done, but at what $$ cost.

I just got 0ne recently, don't feel so bad....

Were these from Ed waller in Atlanta?

Originally Posted by 3tas4me

Not sure about you, but in my experience, complete project cars bring less than the sum of the parts (if parted). None of these cars have anywhere near 20K in good parts on them. 12-15 is about top end of what I think they are worth individually, if even that much. Everyone who has an early rusty T/A always seems to think they have a Barrett Jackson car........

Only one of those cars is matching numbers. The other two may have correct (but not original) engines. After looking at the pictures closely and receiving a call from from Pat, the one with the collision damage is a car I used to own and sold just 3 or 4 years ago. Original engine is long gone, but M22 was supposed to be original (no VIN stamp on transmission). Car has some major collision repair to make it right again. Cowl is pushed back on the drivers side from the impact. On the plus side, it is the only one of the three that is not rusty. The photo showing the clean floorpan is from this car.

[70RAlll]

he told me 25k as well. I was interested in the car originally from Memphis, as that's my hometown..but 25 is way too much. 12-15 sounded more like it. He really doesn't want to sell. There is not 25k worth of parts on the car #3,which sounds like it is the only numbers car. I bet 12-15 is still more than the sum of its numbers parts.. sounds like the member who saw these three for 26.5k was offered about what they are worth. Bet this guy bought them for that price and now thinks he will hit a homerun..

[3tas4me]

One other note about the car I used to own. He has it listed as an A/C car, but the PHS showed that it actually wasn't. When I bought the car, I got the PHS docs with it and it was not an A/C car from the factory. One of the first owners decided he wanted A/C and took it to the local GM dealer and they did the conversion using all GM parts. So, the next owner will have to decide if they want to keep the A/C or repair the firewall and put it back stock. With the conversion, it makes me wonder if the VIN stamping on the firewall was lost when they cut it for the A/C conversion.

[Formulajones]

Not to sound like a broken record here, but if he indeed wants $25k for each car, then I agree that's extremely overpriced for a car that needs completely torn apart and restored. You'll have $60k or more in just one to do it right, and likely more money if you have to pay someone to do the work.
So you have to ask, what are these cars really worth in todays market, even if only brought back to nice driver condition?? For these cars to sell and make it worth while to most car enthusiasts out there, the purchase price and cost of restoration would have to be near that magical number. Otherwise they'll sit and rot.
You can find better examples for that kind of money, add another $15-$20k and you can buy a pretty nice complete HO and have instant enjoyment for a hell of alot less money in the long run.
Restoring these cars and loosing your ass on them would have to be for the sheer enjoyment and love for the hobby.

[roundportponchos]

I drank from that well too.... Just recently got a 71... blue stick, missing most, but body from cali..
Had 2 super orig ones(71, 72), but had to sell.. Now starting from scratch, what a headache trying to find parts.. When done, $$$ buried many xs over.. Just saving one, here, most don't get done, resto costs far outweigh value,

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Not to sound like a broken record here, but if he indeed wants $25k for each car, then I agree that's extremely overpriced for a car that needs completely torn apart and restored. You'll have $60k or more in just one to do it right, and likely more money if you have to pay someone to do the work.
So you have to ask, what are these cars really worth in todays market, even if only brought back to nice driver condition?? For these cars to sell and make it worth while to most car enthusiasts out there, the purchase price and cost of restoration would have to be near that magical number. Otherwise they'll sit and rot.
You can find better examples for that kind of money, add another $15-$20k and you can buy a pretty nice complete HO and have instant enjoyment for a hell of alot less money in the long run.
Restoring these cars and loosing your ass on them would have to be for the sheer enjoyment and love for the hobby.

[Formulajones]

I didn't mean to sound like I'm knocking the time, money, and effort involved to completely restore one. My hats off to ya Roundport. I do it for a living from start to finish, paint/body/drivetrain etc.. That said, I can get one done for myself alot cheaper than most could that would have to pay for someone like me, but that still doesn't make me all that ambitious to tackle a project like that for myself, and in the end, I would still have more in it than the car is worth, not counting my labor.

My prediction on the future of these cars isn't as bright as some would like to hope. Considering all us baby boomers are getting old, we are really the people that buy these cars and drive the prices up. So what happens in another 10-15 years when we all start disappearing? Kids nowadays don't care about these cars, and certainly won't give up their electronic creature comforts to own one. So I see the prices dropping when no one is buying.

From that perspective, you either have to get into one at a decent price so you don't take a big hit later, or you have the intent to pass it down to your kids and grandkids and don't care about value (if they even care to have it).

But that's just me babbling. A couple of good examples I had about 15 years ago was a 71 TA and a 74 SD formula, both 4 speed cars. Both too far gone in my opinion to warrant the money and time to bring back. The 74 literally broke in half from rust when I winched it on the trailer. So from a money standpoint they were nothing more than parts cars in my eyes, I stripped them both of drivetrains, every nut, bolt, and clip and sent the bare shells off to the crusher.

[transam1972]

I believe within the year, repo. 70 to 73 quarters will come out, and with all the repo. parts available...you could build a clone off any Firebird in light years better shape than any of these rust rockets...not that I condone cloneing

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

My prediction on the future of these cars isn't as bright as some would like to hope. Considering all us baby boomers are getting old, we are really the people that buy these cars and drive the prices up. So what happens in another 10-15 years when we all start disappearing? Kids nowadays don't care about these cars, and certainly won't give up their electronic creature comforts to own one. So I see the prices dropping when no one is buying.

I figure that's what will happen with all the Ram Air IV (4 speed) Judge converts......

By the time the price drops on those........I'll likely be "old enough" to own one....

I still think the 70-73 market has a WAY better chance of staying STRONG,....longer than most earlier musclecars,as MOST younger people that like 77-81 T/A's,LUST after the 70-73's.....and as they get older and RICHER........they will help to keep the market healthy.......JMO

[transam1972]

sorry I do not have a Ram Air IV convertible for you 2Many, I can will you my 72 T/A, as I have no truly deserving next of kin...but damn, if your handle truly implies that you do have too many Trans Am's.... do you deserve another one?...then really, 2 Many how many are too many...no really, how many and what years do you own?...any 1972's?

[Nick623]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

MOST younger people that like 77-81 T/A's,LUST after the 70-73's.....and as they get older and RICHER........they will help to keep the market healthy.......JMO

Makes total sense, I'm 22 and I LUST for a 70-73 TA and would probably be able to afford one quite a bit ways down the road and I'm certain there are many in my age range like me, the later year TA's are "starter cars" and the 70-73 cars would be what I consider "trophy cars"

[Dens71TA]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

MOST younger people that like 77-81 T/A's,LUST after the 70-73's.....

That was me in late 1999/early 2000. Started looking at '77-78 cars, for a little more I could get an earlier car, save up some more money and start looking at '74-76 cars, for little more I can get what I REALLY want and buy a '70-73 car, save up more money .... so in March of 2000 and at eighteen and a half years old I bought a '71 Trans Am. Coincidentally, one of the previous owners did the exact same thing when he bought it in 1978.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by Nick623

Makes total sense, I'm 22 and I LUST for a 70-73 TA and would probably be able to afford one quite a bit ways down the road and I'm certain there are many in my age range like me, the later year TA's are "starter cars" and the 70-73 cars would be what I consider "trophy cars"

Glad to have you with us....we need MORE younger enthusiasts....this will ensure that that our favorite cars will live FOREVER.....I hope you are out "recruiting" all your friends...

I usually have a couple of early to mid-70's firebirds or T/A's in my driveway....these are "tinker" cars........projects....I like working outside,....under my tree.....and it's AMAZING how many people walking by (younger ones) tell me that my rusty 70 Formula 400 with faded green paint is the one they like the best...lots of people stop and take pictures of it.....go figure........SO,there IS hope.

[roundportponchos]

Here's my project... guess I have the "Charlie Brown" christmas tree syndrome.. My oldest, 14, went with me to to Wisc to get it. He really likes it, has great options... I hope he continues to have an interest, I'm in mid 40s, i hope younger gen follows in our footsteps.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I didn't mean to sound like I'm knocking the time, money, and effort involved to completely restore one. My hats off to ya Roundport. I do it for a living from start to finish, paint/body/drivetrain etc.. That said, I can get one done for myself alot cheaper than most could that would have to pay for someone like me, but that still doesn't make me all that ambitious to tackle a project like that for myself, and in the end, I would still have more in it than the car is worth, not counting my labor.

My prediction on the future of these cars isn't as bright as some would like to hope. Considering all us baby boomers are getting old, we are really the people that buy these cars and drive the prices up. So what happens in another 10-15 years when we all start disappearing? Kids nowadays don't care about these cars, and certainly won't give up their electronic creature comforts to own one. So I see the prices dropping when no one is buying.

From that perspective, you either have to get into one at a decent price so you don't take a big hit later, or you have the intent to pass it down to your kids and grandkids and don't care about value (if they even care to have it).

But that's just me babbling. A couple of good examples I had about 15 years ago was a 71 TA and a 74 SD formula, both 4 speed cars. Both too far gone in my opinion to warrant the money and time to bring back. The 74 literally broke in half from rust when I winched it on the trailer. So from a money standpoint they were nothing more than parts cars in my eyes, I stripped them both of drivetrains, every nut, bolt, and clip and sent the bare shells off to the crusher.

[2manyT/A'S]

Looks pretty solid...but you got your work cut out for you.......will be a nice one when it's done....

[AkCamaro]

I think there is still an easy 20 years of growth in the prices of the muscle car market. I'm 42 now, and I have to beg borrow and steal to acquire my little collection. Once I'm 62 and the kids are grown and the house is paid off? OMG watch out, I am gonna be able to throw down big money on the Challenger T/A's/Mach 1's/ L78's/RAIV's and SD's that I want now but cant yet swing.

[starlightblack]

Wonder if there is a 3.73 car in the lot.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

Glad to have you with us....we need MORE younger enthusiasts....this will ensure that that our favorite cars will live FOREVER.....I hope you are out "recruiting" all your friends...

I'll second that

Originally Posted by roundportponchos

Here's my project... guess I have the "Charlie Brown" christmas tree syndrome.. My oldest, 14, went with me to to Wisc to get it. He really likes it, has great options... I hope he continues to have an interest, I'm in mid 40s, i hope younger gen follows in our footsteps.

Glad to see there are younger folk interested in these cars, and getting your son involved is fantastic. My son who helps me in the shop has grown to love these old cars, and unlike most of the younger generation, he deviates away from cars with big wheels and spoilers and prefers stock or "day 2" cars. Same thing I did when I was young helping my father in the shop.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by AkCamaro

I think there is still an easy 20 years of growth in the prices of the muscle car market. I'm 42 now, and I have to beg borrow and steal to acquire my little collection. Once I'm 62 and the kids are grown and the house is paid off? OMG watch out, I am gonna be able to throw down big money on the Challenger T/A's/Mach 1's/ L78's/RAIV's and SD's that I want now but cant yet swing.

I'm glad to see there are others here that appreciate all these great cars and aren't tied down to a specific brand or model.

I too have a small collection, with a ford and a few chevy's mixed in with pontiacs. They all have their quirks but they all have good points too and I enjoy every one of them. I'm older but was lucky enough to buy most of this stuff in the 80's when they were still cheap, and even luckier to hang onto them. Along with an understanding wife who also loves the cars also helps.

[PONTIACHOMESLICE]

Let me know if anyone needs me to eyeball cars, I know the guy that has them and he's just a few miles from me.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by PONTIACHOMESLICE

Let me know if anyone needs me to eyeball cars, I know the guy that has them and he's just a few miles from me.

Why don't you go visit.....check them out and give us the inside scoop (not suggesting the seller isn't).......I would,if I was nearby......