[OVERULD]

Dennis,
What a beautiful Formula! I should stop reading and drooling over this thread because it will make me want to do the same with my 74 Formula 455! Love the no-spoiler look, which is the way mine came.

Here's mine as is today.







BJ

[SD455DJ]

BJ, you bought a real nice one from John. I seriously looked at for a while until my '71 showed up. It is a great car and super solid. Obvious that it was well taken care of regardless of its miles. I really like it with the Honeys too. Formula fever is very contagious!

Dennis

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Which one was the push start model?

Auto zone on that one. Never ever had an issue when I had the CRV mini starter.

[OVERULD]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

BJ, you bought a real nice one from John. I seriously looked at for a while until my '71 showed up. It is a great car and super solid. Obvious that it was well taken care of regardless of its miles. I really like it with the Honeys too. Formula fever is very contagious!

Dennis

Thanks Dennis; I actually bought the car from Pat, up in Philly. (pjhconst)

BJ

[unruhjonny]

cool!
I didn't realize that Pontiac offered this cloth/corduroy scheme in two colours for 1974!
My brother's '73 has this, and I have seen it in black on a '74.
I'm thinking this colour combo might be even nicer than the 1973 version!

[SD455DJ]

It's been a while since my last post and update. I was still was fighting severe starter heat-soak with the car, even after installing the new Powermaster starter and solenoid...they are junk! I never noticed they actually have the standard regular duty solenoids and starter motors, not the heavy duty ones!Don't waste your money on them, or at least the stock type. Also discovered it had old aftermarket 4-gauge battery cables, which are pretty wimpy. I ended up getting a HD remanufactured starter and solenoid from the local parts store and ordered new custom built side terminal battery cables from Custom Battery Cables (Apache Junction, AZ) in 2-gauge wire with high temp insulation and the factory lengths (46" pos/22" neg). They made them the same day I ordered and were shipped that same afternoon...talk about amazing turn-around and service! I'm not sure of the factory cable gauge, but they are probably 4-gauge as the 2-gauge new wire is pretty stiff and difficult to work around tight routing paths, but possible by taking your time. Heavier gauge wire, like 1-ga or 0/00 would be ridiculously hard to work with.

Long story short, once it was all back together I took it out for a good 20 minute ride in 92 degree weather, let it idle another 15 minutes to get good and hot, shut it off and let her sit for 10 more minutes with the hood down to let the heat soak in really good. It spun the motor over as fast as it did on the cold start, no hesitation, no heat soak issues. I did install the factory two-piece heat shield over the solenoid just for added protection. Sweet success, finally!! No more garden sprayer and 20 minute cool-downs at the gas stations! The car does run fairly cool in the high heat, usually around 180 - 190 on the highway and cools down to 175-ish in town (no AC on).

We did check the voltage output of the alternator and it is too low, 11.5 volts at idle and only 13 volts any rpm above. So, time to rebuild the 55 amp original alternator.

I had to take a couple of pics of the Formula after the little excursion and successful restarts since it was the first drive of the summer for me in the Formula!

Dennis

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

It's been a while since my last post and update. I was still was fighting severe starter heat-soak with the car, even after installing the new Powermaster starter and solenoid...they are junk! I never noticed they actually have the standard regular duty solenoids and starter motors, not the heavy duty ones!Don't waste your money on them, or at least the stock type. Also discovered it had old aftermarket 4-gauge battery cables, which are pretty wimpy. I ended up getting a HD remanufactured starter and solenoid from the local parts store and ordered new custom built side terminal battery cables from Custom Battery Cables (Apache Junction, AZ) in 2-gauge wire with high temp insulation and the factory lengths (46" pos/22" neg). They made them the same day I ordered and were shipped that same afternoon...talk about amazing turn-around and service! I'm not sure of the factory cable gauge, but they are probably 4-gauge as the 2-gauge new wire is pretty stiff and difficult to work around tight routing paths, but possible by taking your time. Heavier gauge wire, like 1-ga or 0/00 would be ridiculously hard to work with.

Long story short, once it was all back together I took it out for a good 20 minute ride in 92 degree weather, let it idle another 15 minutes to get good and hot, shut it off and let her sit for 10 more minutes with the hood down to let the heat soak in really good. It spun the motor over as fast as it did on the cold start, no hesitation, no heat soak issues. I did install the factory two-piece heat shield over the solenoid just for added protection. Sweet success, finally!! No more garden sprayer and 20 minute cool-downs at the gas stations! The car does run fairly cool in the high heat, usually around 180 - 190 on the highway and cools down to 175-ish in town (no AC on).

We did check the voltage output of the alternator and it is too low, 11.5 volts at idle and only 13 volts any rpm above. So, time to rebuild the 55 amp original alternator.

I had to take a couple of pics of the Formula after the little excursion and successful restarts since it was the first drive of the summer for me in the Formula!

Dennis

Great info on the starter. I have the same problem with my 70.

[unruhjonny]

congrats on getting that figured out!

Originally Posted by weranc55

Great info on the starter. I have the same problem with my 70.

years ago I was perusing parts books (places like NAPA still do have those ) and found a high temperature solenoid - that seemed to fix my problems too.

[RicksGTO]

good job on the starter, I went with a local built mini-starter from a small Dallas manufacturer and it solved my problem in any temp. So much easier to work on and install too. Love your car and what a great color, just beautiful!!

[SD455DJ]

Thanks RicksGTO! If this didn't work, I was going to go the mini-starter route too. I really think the heavier cables do help any well-built heavy duty starter and solenoid to not over heat and reduce resistance. I did the same thing to my RAIV GTO Judge many moons ago and never had a problem since.

As unruhJonny said, the high temp HD solenoid is a must on these cars.

Dennis

[OVERULD]

Dennis, your car is so nice to look at! Congrats on solving the heat soak issue! I have a bit of a similar issue on my 74 and I think it is in the wire gauge to the starter. Thanks for posting these tips. I need to get this issue resolved and my AC working before the TA Nats

BJ

[The Boss]

Nice to get that monkey off your back. It really ruins the joy of the whole deal when you know you are going to have a problem every time you take it out!

[Judge273]

I know that too. Once done right you forget the pain. Like a construction project...

What thermostat you running? 175?

[455hota]

Dennis, referring to your starter heat shield you referenced above, is this the one you used?




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[SD455DJ]

455hota - Yes, that looks like the same one.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Judge273

I know that too. Once done right you forget the pain. Like a construction project...

What thermostat you running? 175?

Mike, Believe it or not, but a 180. Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Nice to get that monkey off your back. It really ruins the joy of the whole deal when you know you are going to have a problem every time you take it out!

Chris....Oh, so true! Fueling up was frustrating for the others guys I was caravaning with.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by OVERULD

Dennis, your car is so nice to look at! Congrats on solving the heat soak issue! I have a bit of a similar issue on my 74 and I think it is in the wire gauge to the starter. Thanks for posting these tips. I need to get this issue resolved and my AC working before the TA Nats

BJ

BJ, Thanks for the kind words. I really hope all is well with your wife. We've been keeping you both in our prayers. Don't get any heavier gauge wire than the 2-ga as that is a heavy enough cable. Both custom cables with shipping was $75. I got them both in black like the originals. The side terminal connection bolts to the battery are a bit different from the factory design. It is a threaded stud with an Allen wrench recess in the end to tighten it in the battery connection, then you screw on a 9/16" nut with shoulder...which is a superior design. You have to look at it hard to see that it isn't quite the factory connection, but I wasn't worried about that since my car is a driver, not a concourse nut & bolt restoration.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by 455hota

Dennis, referring to your starter heat shield you referenced above, is this the one you used?
Attachment 487390



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455hota, Here is a picture of the heat shield from the nose of the starter (the previous Powermaster unit that didn't work out)where you can see the two piece construction (inner and outer plates with an air gap in between). It looks like yours is the same, but not sure form your picture angle.

Dennis

[455hota]

Thanks Dennis!
The shield I have is the same shape at yours but it does not have the double wall with an air gap. It is a single thickness stamping.

... Steve


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