[T/A addict]

With the threat of all the cars being built electric in the near future what are your thoughts on the future of our loves? Are you concerned at all that all the love and money we put into restoring and modifying or cars will all be for not? Will we have to sell a kidney for a little fuel?

[foxgapLeMans]

I am in the middle of restoring my car for the third time and would really like to enjoy it with gasoline in it, then leave it to my niece when the time comes and have her enjoy it. I would really hate to see a mass production of wimp mobiles without thoughts to what people really need. We just got 23" of snow here, I know that is not much for other places, but it is a hit here. I just can't see a Volt plowing thru it and the battery dying in the middle of the highway.
Unless you buy a high end electric SUV and spend what my mortgage was I just can't see it yet. Give me my 95 Chevy 3/4 ton abuse mobile anytime for now.

[RocktimusPryme]

Its a long way away for a lot of reasons. Infrastructure, battery availability, plus its not like they can mandate overnight that everyone have the money to buy an electric vehicle. I think you will see them pushing MFGs to get cleaner and cleaner, which will organically put more eco friendly cars on the road, but over a long period of time. I would personally like to see all fully electric or hybrid semi trucks before passenger cars.

[Half-Inch Stud]

IMO the outlook for combustion engines in cars and trucks is good.

Electric motor cars and trucks will only succeed in known, invariant travel routes for quite some time.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

IMO the outlook for combustion engines in cars and trucks is good.

Electric motor cars and trucks will only succeed in known, invariant travel routes for quite some time.

Which is why I think the focus would be better placed in the commercial trucking market. Semis are dirtier by far to start with. Companies are more likely to be able to upgrade fleet vehicles than the common consumer for myriad reasons. And as you mentioned commercial trucking mostly follow known routes and stop at predetermined locations that service their type of vehicle.

It would be easier to upgrade truck stops to charging stations than all other gas stations.

[dataway]

The electrical infrastructure will be a major hurdle to overcome. States like NY can CA can barely meet their electrical needs now, imagine a million more electric cars charging up every day. Using an average of 70 kwh to charge a car, say four times a month, 280 kwh extra for the month. My typical house/shop usage is 800-900 kwh a month averaged over the year. So about 32% more electricity I would use. One million additional electric cars would equal the equivalent of 320,000 new homes.

California has 15 million cars, if they were all electric it would be like adding 4,800,000 new homes to power. California barely has the power to supply the homes that have right now. Not only would massive new generation be necessary, the grid would have to be total rebuilt to handle the load, right down to the neighborhood distribution and the service entrance to millions of older homes.

Multiply this times the 250 million cars in the US .... we just don't have the power ... unless they want to build a thousand new power plants and power them with fossil fuels.

In winter climates you can expect considerably less efficiency as you expend about 10,000 BTU or 3 kw per hour to pre-warm, defrost and maintain heat in the car. Same for air conditioning in hot climates. This will probably become less of a factor as battery power density increases.

It will be a long time in coming, probably 40 years assuming no worldwide calamities in the mean time. No telling what kind of battery power we will have in 40 years, I'd expect range to no longer be factor, performance would be whatever you want it to be.

There is still hydrogen ... although engineers in the know say "Hydrogen is the fuel of the future .... and always will be." But IC engines can run quite well on hydrogen and produce great power, and exhaust water. Problem is again power density, takes a lot of hydrogen to do the work, and it's hard to compress and store in a safe manner in suitable quantity for a car. Not to mention it usually take more energy to produce hydrogen that it makes when you consume it, but that could change. Hydrogen would probably be used for electrical generation in hydrogen fuel cells rather than IC engines.

I have read some interesting articles on the production of hydrogen using natural biological processes.

Energy density is the final word in what will be used to move vehicles. Right now fossil fuels offer the highest per pound/volume source of energy but the gap closes every year. Haven't done the math but I'd guess if they double current battery power density it would be very close to equaling that of gasoline.

[i82much]

I'm not worried about the day I can't buy a new gas or diesel vehicle. I'm worried about the day I can't find a gas station nearby, or can't plan a road trip knowing there will be enough gas stations along the way.

[1965gp]

I agree with the pitfalls of the infrastructure. I pointed out in another thread- imagine parking your car on the street in Boston. Are you running an extension cord to it? In the snow?

What if you live in a hose with 3-4 drivers and multiple vehicles?

They will be a niche market until they can be charged with solar or we have charging stations by every mail box.

Dataway makes some really good points- but that is at today’s electricity prices. If that’s all green energy it will go up substantially and won’t be any savings, let alone the conveniences they sacrifice.

[getmygoat]

You are fine for at least twenty years. After that, things might start to get less robust. The vision is electric vehicles that charge primarily at night at the owners home, thus reduced need for "refueling" stations. Electric grid has spare capacity at night, so this reduces infrastructure demands. Also, greater adoption of roof top solar reduces load on electric grid further.

Tesla plans 20M electric vehicles in 2030. Current world market for vehicles is 90M/yr. In 2030, likely 20% of new vehicles still fuel based, but the fleet is large, and has a lifetime of 20 years.

[Chief of the 60's]

The threat to collector cars isn't EV's.

The threat is and always will be the same one that has plagued the hobby for years now. Lack of interest by the younger population. Placing blame on EV's is just a poor excuse.

If you're that worried about your "investment", get a group of your car buddies together and go visit a local school or Boy's Club with your cars. Expose kids to cars and why they're cool. Hell, their parents aren't going to do it.

If you only get 1 kid excited enough to take a vested interest, that's 1 more that without your effort, would never have had the experience.

So STOP with the excuses.

[i82much]

Take someone that wants to go hunting in a pickup truck. You can carry spare fuel into the back country, we do it every year. Do you take spare batteries? If so, are they standardized - does every car use the same battery pack? If so, and they are light enough to replace yourself, hey that's not so bad.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by T/A addict

With the threat of all the cars being built electric in the near future what are your thoughts on the future of our loves? Are you concerned at all that all the love and money we put into restoring and modifying or cars will all be for not? Will we have to sell a kidney for a little fuel?

I don’t think 100% non fossil fueled cars will happen very soon.
I am more concerned with the possibility that our older, less fuel efficient vehicles could be legislated off the road as a step towards the “green” idealistic yet unrealistic world.

[foxgapLeMans]

The one thing my company is starting to use are the big service trucks and dump trucks are powered by natural gas. Waste Management has a landfill near here that has a service station for their garbage trucks and anyone else that has a natural gas engine. The prices are pretty resonable and you get about the same BTU's as a deisel fuel. One of the drawbacks are a long time filling the tanks and mods to your garages for exhaust fans and sensors for the in- case -of leaks. Or ya just leave the trucks outside.

[OG68]

5 minute battery charging times are now being tested. Expected to be in use by 2025.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...charging-times

[RocktimusPryme]

We have basically had a resurgence of match racing from the 60s with the current televised No Prep craze. So I think there is more interest from the youth than we give them credit for.

Models with rise and fall. I was just reading about increased collectability of the IROC cars. I have long been trying to talk myself into buying a ZR1 C4 before they go nuts.

I also think that the older cars will be safer than new cars now. I mean how many years have states had different laws for cars 25 years and older etc. I think collector cars will be fine in 2035. Its that 2021 Silverado I would be worried about.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Which is why I think the focus would be better placed in the commercial trucking market. Semis are dirtier by far to start with. Companies are more likely to be able to upgrade fleet vehicles than the common consumer for myriad reasons. And as you mentioned commercial trucking mostly follow known routes and stop at predetermined locations that service their type of vehicle.

It would be easier to upgrade truck stops to charging stations than all other gas stations.

Which is why GE got Locomotives right with electrical drive like 6 decades ago. Hook them electric trucks together and train em down the tracks. Rinse and repeat, daily.

[David Jones]

Lots of hurdles to overcome.
"Engineering Explained" on YouTube has done a couple of long road trips (2000 plus miles) in his Tesla. One in the summer and one in the winter. This is the winter trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskzfQJt2Bc The thought of stopping constantly to charge up is very unappealing to me....

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Which is why GE got Locomotives right with electrical drive like 6 decades ago. Hook them electric trucks together and train em down the tracks. Rinse and repeat, daily.

No argument from me. I wish we had more commuter train options in this country let alone those for commercial shipping. Outside of a few major hubs like NYC and Chicago though, it just doesnt exist.

For some reason in this country we associate public transportation with "being for poor people". In new york, you hop on the subway to go to dinner. No big deal. Everyone does it.

In Tampa if I told me girlfriend to "Hop of the bus and meet me for dinner," she would probably break up with me.

[73LeMans]

Timely thread. I've never been worried about the electric market, until now. With statements made by GM to "completely phase out vehicles using internal combustion engines by 2035" and Chrysler saying the V8s days are numbered, there is legitimate concern, for me to believe anyway, that the next 20 years may mean a lot of what we do, will not be possible. Are those statements a posturing ploy to look good? Probably. They aren't talking about tomorrow, and these plans (like most this lofty do) will likely get pushed out, but when you take a look at Lingenfleters and GMs partnership on electric motors and others like it, it really seems the big 3 are working toward the all electric goal, regardless of the logistics of making it work across the country. We've seen the tail wag the dog before.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

The threat to collector cars isn't EV's.

The threat is and always will be the same one that has plagued the hobby for years now. Lack of interest by the younger population. Placing blame on EV's is just a poor excuse.

If you're that worried about your "investment", get a group of your car buddies together and go visit a local school or Boy's Club with your cars. Expose kids to cars and why they're cool. Hell, their parents aren't going to do it.

If you only get 1 kid excited enough to take a vested interest, that's 1 more that without your effort, would never have had the experience.

So STOP with the excuses.

I'm still going to stand by my statement..... EXCUSES

They are just excuses. Are EV's or the government killing the farming industry? No. The farming industry is dying for the exact same reason the car hobby is dying. Lack of interest by the younger generation.

Physically show the younger generation why its interesting and they'll take interest in it. And Street Outcasts isn't the answer.

The biggest problem is that many people with collector cars have the attitude that the world must come to them. You are the very people who are going to die with a worthless collector car.