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#61
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So an upgrade to a forged crank in the stroker kit is $599. It's got to be at least that to prep a factory crank. Clean, inspect, mag, turn, polish, and balance.
You're doing an engine to last, that's a small price to pay for the comfy feeling. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
The Following User Says Thank You to HWYSTR455 For This Useful Post: | ||
#62
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Just catching up on this thread after being gone most of the weekend. Great discussion as always.
HWYSTR I do think it's important to note on your last message that the upgrade cost as part of a rotating assembly is only about 600 for the forged crank. That's on top of the nominal cost of the cast crank however. Piecing together just the rods and pistons without a completed kit may end up being cheaper. However, it's a good point that pricing everything out makes sense. If the difference is negligible, it's likely worth the squeeze.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#63
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Also, it’s been mentioned on here that some of the balanced assemblies may still need balancing.
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#64
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Quote:
I've not really heard anything along those lines for the Butler assemblies. I did a quick bit of math and doing a Butler assembly with a forged crank is about $1100.00 more than purchasing their Rebuilder kit with pistons and rods standalone. It's not apples to apples as I priced molnar rods, but didn't select the molnar rod upgrade on the assembly. Actual cost difference is probably closer to $1400.00 This engine will never have any nitrous on it and I've let go of the idea of building any type of boosted engine. I just don't need it with how I use the car. Heck, if the engine already had a decent steel rod in it, I'd probably just send out the heads and intake for porting. I'm not looking for gobs more power than I already have. I believe as the car sits it has a 12.90 in it with a slick and some tuning. Not bad in 8000 ft air.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
The Following User Says Thank You to JLMounce For This Useful Post: | ||
#65
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Yes, understand that, but also understand that you will not get the price break on a kit if you stick with the OE crank.
A cast crank is like $400. That's crank alone. You still have to prep it like a used OE crank. Rods are in the $400-$600 range. Pistons in the $700-$800 range. A stroker kit is @ $2100 range. But sure, price it out, I would think everyone would do that to have a valid comparison. Include machine work in the comparison, that will make it a more accurate comparison. .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#66
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Tree'd me!
.
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#67
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Run your factory crank, IF it checks out. ARP main studs, 4340 rods with a good full float piston, and you`re good to go.
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The Following User Says Thank You to PunchT37 For This Useful Post: | ||
#68
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This is my latest crank to go in my next engine.Forged,3in main 4.21 stroke BBC Rod Js.Been lightened(2 slugs of Mallory).Bull nosed leading edge and knife edge trailing edge.No clue who made it.Marine Crankshaft checked it out and gave it a OK.Tom
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The Following User Says Thank You to tom s For This Useful Post: | ||
#69
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No disagreement here that a factory nodular 455 crank is strong and up to the task. The ONLY thing that would make me a wee bit apprehensive is the sheer number of cycles on it. I would trust a modern day forged crank and have better peace of mind with it than a ~50 year old crank....but that's just me. If that same crank had been in one of my engines for most of its life, I might think differently about it.
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#70
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It's an XJ code so the 455 was likely in a luxo-barge in its early life. That doesn't mean it wasn't beat on, but probably a family hauler type deal. Engine is .030 over currently so I'm assuming the crank is 10/10 as well.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
The Following User Says Thank You to JLMounce For This Useful Post: | ||
#71
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A luxo-barge could still have been abused by a number of overheating cycles, and towing. Or sitting in a field in hot summers/cold winters.
I dunno, I used to feel OE cranks were fine to use, OE rods too. Now since the stuff is readily available and affordable, I just eliminate as many possible risks in any build. I would even go a cast cranks before using an OE. A machine shop could easily miss signs when checking the OE parts too. I just don't trust anything anymore. If, just if, there is that chance of failure, and it does fail, I would beat myself up over not replacing an OE prepped part. And not spending that nominal extra money. Reminder. The cost could be not just the amount you spent the 1st time, but the cost of doing it all over again combined. Just how I feel, and personal opinion. * .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#72
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^^^^^^This! If you are concerned about durability have the crank nitrided once it has been re-ground and the strokes equalized.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#73
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Quote:
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
#74
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Here’s a good one guy buys 400 for his Firebird and guess what he finds, broken cracked. Funny thing is the whole crank turns freely but when he goes to take it out, its broken in half.
https://youtu.be/333_4uFcWfU?si=zFRnSPp5zBZKWBYW
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The Following User Says Thank You to Gach For This Useful Post: | ||
#75
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Quote:
And that was an Eagle crank I bet? .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#76
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Quote:
That would be my guess anyway.... .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#77
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Quote:
That would be my guess anyway.... .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#78
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My understanding is they corrected the crank issues in like 2015 or so, but could be mistaken. Regardless, everything needs to be checked thoroughly.
+2 NEVER assume anything with any part, especially if it from China or any other Country known for making parts that are sub-par and often don't make the grade for the purpose they were intended for. I've rejected a number of offshore cast cranks over the years after my crank grinder told me that by the time he got them where they needed to be I could have had Moldex make a forging for the project for less money! I've also assembled a couple of engines using stroker "kits" that ended up being fine. I'm still not a fan of the offshore cast cranks so over the years avoided them like the plague. I've seen just enough problems and failures with them to steer clear of that deal. I will endorse the forgings however, but you still need to check them closely in every area. The few I've installed here were spot on for fit and finish and still surviving just fine after many years of hard use.......
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#79
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Exactly. Forged, never look back, even for something that will not be 'raced'.
.
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
#80
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Exactly. Forged, never look back, even for something that will not be 'raced'.
People still argue about it though... .
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. 1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624 1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be |
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