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#41
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What is the stroke?
Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7420 |
#42
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Say 3.75...there also ways to help with the offset and the push rod angle..
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#43
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450 cc is a little over 27 c.i.
In any case, this thread is not about HP/c.i. of two-stroke engines.
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Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} |
#44
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Just replying to HIS question
Its a Honda CBR250F. (just over 15 CID) 4 cylinder 4 stroke with real valve springs Seems weird setting a shiftlight at 16k to get a shift in before the 18k limiter LOL Back to topic........................
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Working on going faster (and now staying dry at the same time !!) |
#45
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Quote:
That engine will still need to be making big power @ 10,200 RPM. I would like to hear that sound coming from a Pontiac. Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7520 |
#46
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on par with the 2-Stroke of same CID running at half RPM. Shows the true cost of >2X HP/CID is (Valvetrain) spin-ability for us Joe 6-packs. Indicating a dire need to implement a desmodromic valvertain. If no desmodromic, THEN a NECESSARY begging need to vent the Exhaust through a WINDOW, not a valve. And run a larger Intake valve. That my friends leads to oiling & bearing technology swaps to avoid crop-dusting along the 1/4 mile. So, for an attempt at keeping an exhaust window clean and free of traditional oil, i'd like to know if CYL coatings, and accommodating piston skirts eve have a chance to run in an exhaust-windowed block. If not then i want to know if fuel-like lubricants can keep the traditional V8 bearing system survived under Topic loads. If neither can support, then the transition to caged needle bearings on piston pin, rod journal and crank are a development trade for us low-buck enthusiasts. I hope this serves to summarize the potential developments avenues yet to succeed 1000lb exhaust valvesprings and accommodating valvetrain & block expense. on topic? HIS Probably worthy of a separate Thread, or forum, so I'll bow-out of this & just read.
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12.24/111.6MPH/1.76 60'/28"/3.54:1/SP-TH400/469 R96A/236-244-112LC/1050&TorkerI//3850Lbs//15MPG/89oct Sold 2003: 12.00/112MPH/1.61 60'/26"x3.31:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Q-Jet-Torker/3650Lbs//18MPG 94oct Sold 1994: 11.00/123MPH/1.50 60'/29.5"x4.10:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Dual600s-Wenzler/3250Lbs//94oct Last edited by Half-Inch Stud; 03-15-2014 at 09:06 AM. |
#47
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I think we all agree it will take an rpm level that most traditional Pontiac enthusiast don't feel comfortable at. So I think that is the first hurdle we need to address. The second hurdle I see is the valve train. To make this level of HP we are going to need a cam lobe that is very aggressive. With a two valve head design that is going to require a valve spring of the highest quality and will most likely need monitored every pass. At the very least you may need to change one or several every couple of passes. A valve spring of this caliber is not cheap and will need to be ordered in multiple sets not just one set.
I'm not a hundred percent sure how many, but I do know that Pro stock engines have more than 5 cam bearings to keep the cam from flexing. So we are at an immediate disadvantage right from the start. The very least that we need to do is have a bigger cam core at least 60 mm. That will take some creative block machining to make it work. I think that we need to look at average cfm in the window that the cam operates in to estimate HP potential not just peak cfm. I agree it will take close to 500 cfm to attain this goal at max lift, but the flow numbers at .400-.500 through the cams max lift will need to be scrutinized. This will need to be done with the intake in place when testing or all of your effort will be wasted. I have seen a poorly designed intake knock over 100 cfm out the head. I think the 4.400 bore x 4.100 stroke combo is definitely doe able and rotating weight can be controlled. I also think this stroke will need around 8800-9000 rpm with a cylinder head csa that will support the amount of cfm needed for 1150 HP. This will take allot of R&D on the dyno with different port designs and cam profiles. We still need to address intake runner length, taper, csa, plenum volume, and carburetor locations. We also need to look at header design. I'm sure someone here has a program that can estimate header diameters, lengths, and collector selection. I don't have any of that fancy software LOL. When we all agree on what this engine will need. It would be cool to have someone plug it into a sophisticated and accurate simulator to see what we get. Don Johnston DCI MOTORSPORTS INC. 330-850-5050 shop 330-628-3354 cell Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air 5 Heads !!!!! |
#48
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Quote:
Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7420 |
#49
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With a cyl head with the right valve arrangement, one could get by with a lot less than
.220 between cyls. and increase the bore more than 4.4. Nascar engines regularly approach and sometimes eclipse 10k rpm for 500 miles, to 600 miles. Lifter bores, cam lobes can be moved, cam tunnel raised and enlarged.
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds |
#50
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Exactly J.C.You...your piece showcases some of that thinking and ingenuity doesn't it!!
This stuff has been done in every other brand X form...heck it's even been done here in the Pontiac community a couple of times . The block we have here is 4.435 bore . and I know someones block is even bigger than that! We're at 2.0 per and less than 8,000 with Frank's deal (7,300 for peak power) . This is very , very possible. Johnny
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Checkered Flag Machine & Ceralli Competition Engines Racing engines and induction development http://www.checkeredflagmachine.net/ |
#51
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I have heard McCarty Racing is doing a 406 and it should be in the range of 2.7 to 3.0 HP/CID. It has a 4.40 bore and 3.3 stroke. I think that comes out 404 and change. They intend to run NHRA Comp Eliminator or at least Super Stock Modified. I saw the crank, man is that thing cool! It is an old original RAV forging from a 366. They have two of them! My McCarty Racing engine is nearly 4.600 bore and 4.8500 crank if we dont find a tall block. I cant wait! I am posting some pictures of RAVs sent out. |
#52
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1989 Automotive Hall of Fame Inductee |
#53
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It will NEVER happen! |
#54
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Agreed...not with a tunnel port. It has been proven by some of the best in the racing buisness that a tunnel port wont work in the high rpm range..9200-10k+. some years back, millions were spent testing tunnel ports for prostock. They scrapped the whole program.
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#55
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Agree... there is good reason the tunnel port isnt in use in pro stock. It aint money.
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#56
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Quote:
Don't get me wrong a inline valve is not on the same playing field as a current prostock layout and that high of hp per cube is stretching it.
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds Last edited by J.C.you; 03-16-2014 at 04:32 PM. |
#57
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It wouldn't be a tunnel port if the push rod was out of the port..
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#58
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who says
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds |
#59
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The term "tunnel port".. what do u think it refers too?
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#60
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I have driven in a few tunnels in my lifetime. No pushrods in those. Seriously, tunnel means straight in my thoughts, not if it has a pushrod in it or not.
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds |
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