[2002Z4CSS]

This will be good for customer loyality.

[JoeF]

I had an "uncommanded acceleration" in my GTO last year. I had just done a carb swap. Throttle cabble seemed a tad short but OK. Came to a stop sign and she started to rev up pretty quick, back wheels started to spin and smoke. The brakes held the car and I just reached down and shut it off. My wife looked at me and said "WHAT THE HE11 ARE YOU DOING!!!"

[Mr_GTO]

If it was all driver error....why haven't we seen this kind of thing across the board with all makes and models of cars?

[Keith Vrabec]

How come the defective Firestones never blew up on Blazers?

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by Keith Vrabec

How come the defective Firestones never blew up on Blazers?

Because chevy didn't recommend underinflation of the tires to get a softer ride.

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Whoops, she didn't die.
(at least then, maybe it was later?)

I found part of an article on this, but no article on the actual accident when it happened.


(cover-up?)

Here is part of the article:

did this car have
1) a shifter? auto or stick
2) ignition key?

in 1961 I drove a French Simca Vedette , 3 spd on the column, they had a gas pedal hinged on the floor...we had rubber floor mats for protection of snow/ rain...car was 4 yrs old at that time...I accelerated, put it in second gear when the hinge broke (had rusted off), the pedal slid in under the floor mat, full throttle...I was 18 yrs old....I didnt have to jump out , bail from the car going about 25,30...I just turned the key off....just because you`re teen ,doesnt mean you cannot think!

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

If it was all driver error....why haven't we seen this kind of thing across the board with all makes and models of cars?

you would as soon as other makes had a few drivers tell of it...then the masses come "on board" the story...the Audi acceleration in the 80s , started leading up to a Volvo acceleration story too, but never got big enough. I personally tested Volvos then to see, brakes would hold the car with full throttle ,even Turbo engaged

[Bjorn]

Originally Posted by goatless

Me 3.

It always made me chuckle hearing those Audi owners saying how that super high horsepower motor of a mid-80's 5000 completely overpowered the the 4 wheel disc brakes and shot them through the garage wall with the tires smoking the whole way.

As I`ve said before, Volvos started having the "same problem" mid 80`s also....guess the drivers got "infected" by the Audi drivers...
I personally tested 2 cars, one turbo, one non turbo....
the non turbo car you could stop with full throttle....the turbo version would slowly crawl forward with full throttle...none would 'acceletrate out of control'....one car who claimed it , a third car, I saw from my office window on the second floor of the dealership, when the driver supposedly had this acceleration with his foot on the brakes! his brake lights never came on! when he brought the car back in to our shop and claimed the sudden acceleration , I asked them to check his brake lights...they functioned! case closed! driver error.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

If it was all driver error....why haven't we seen this kind of thing across the board with all makes and models of cars?

Back when the whole "Audi Sudden Acceleration" thing came to a head the Society of Automotive Engineers developed a test procedure, which we at GM helped develop and then adopted.

It was called "Dynamic Vertical Offset" or "DVO", and attempted to define the static relationship between the brake and accelerator pedals, as well as the dynamic apply of both the throttle and brake. A fixture was placed on the brake pedal, a standard pedal force applied and a screw device was used to apply the throttle in standard increments. The output of the test was the measured reading at which point the vehicle either moved forward or spun the tires (if either occured).

Vehicles with pedals that were more "co-planar", that is where the brake and accelerator were closer to being in the same plane, as well as vehicles where the brake and accelerator were closer together side to side, were much more likely to have a sudden acceleration event. Drivers were less likely to be able to distinguish between the brake and throttle, both positionally and due to rate of apply.

Bottom line is that GM designed vehicles where the brake pedal was much "higher" than the throttle, and with more separation laterally between the two, and therefore it wasn't a problem. The apply or effectiveness of the brake system, as well as the engine power level or throttle system became moot at that point.

K

[johnta1]

Aren't the Toyotas electric throttle?
(no throttle cable?)

I personally wouldn't trust a piece of electronic to control your throttle.



If it decides to think you want full throttle, you can't do anything about it.

[Kitch428m21]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

If it was all driver error....why haven't we seen this kind of thing across the board with all makes and models of cars?

Just trying to kick the king off the top of the mountain was all it was.

[Kitch428m21]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Aren't the Toyotas electric throttle?
(no throttle cable?)

I personally wouldn't trust a piece of electronic to control your throttle.



If it decides to think you want full throttle, you can't do anything about it.

Yes it does. Kind of a Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

[wrenchmen]

Vehicles with pedals that were more "co-planar", that is where the brake and accelerator were closer to being in the same plane, as well as vehicles where the brake and accelerator were closer together side to side, were much more likely to have a sudden acceleration event. Drivers were less likely to be able to distinguish between the brake and throttle, both positionally and due to rate of apply.

I dont think it is a problem of distinguishing between the pedals, but rather the application of the brake and throttle at the same time.

I have seen this before with trucks and buses, the brake and throttle are side by side
and this can cause someone to catch the side of the throttle pedal and push it down as they are applying the brakes...especially when wearing boots or someone just has a large foot.

When this happens, panic sets in and the person might not be able to realize what
the problem is and pushes harder down on both pedals!

[EZ-Plate Systems]

Gee, why isn't that a surprise.

Take it EZ,
Brett

[Matador-IV]

By Nick Bunkley

July 14, 2010



Toyota said Wednesday that its investigation of about 2,000 vehicles reported to experience sudden acceleration found evidence that sticking accelerator pedals and interference by floor mats — the subjects of two big recalls — did indeed cause some of the incidents.

It is the first time since the recalls that Toyota has acknowledged that its internal review, which is continuing, found sudden-acceleration complaints to be valid. The carmaker did not disclose how many of the incidents had been caused by the sticky pedals and floor mats.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 3,000 complaints about sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles and is conducting its own examination of them. The agency said in a statement on Wednesday that it had reached “no conclusions” about the causes.

A Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said the company’s investigation involved inspecting the vehicles and downloading data from onboard recorders if a crash occurred. Mr. Michels said the investigation found sticking accelerator pedals in a small number of vehicles and a larger number with floor mats that interfered with pedals.

He said none of the vehicles with a sticking pedal was involved in a crash, and he did not know how many of those identified as having problematic floor mats had crashed.

The Toyota review pointed to human error in most instances when a vehicle crashed while the driver was trying to brake, Mr. Michels said. Nearly all of the crashes in those instances resulted from “pedal misapplication,” meaning the driver mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, he said.

No evidence of malfunctioning electronic throttle systems has been found, Mr. Michels said.

“We’re not implying that everything is driver error, absolutely not,” he said. “But in instances where they reported having their foot on the brake pedal, there is very clear evidence that this is pedal misapplication.”

The Wall Street Journal, citing anonymous sources, reported Tuesday that federal transportation officials had examined event data recorders from dozens of Toyota vehicles and had found open throttles and no evidence of braking. Some media outlets referred to the report as vindication of Toyota, whose supporters had argued that reports of the problems were overblown.

Sean Kane, the president of Safety Research and Strategies, a Massachusetts consulting firm that is working with lawyers suing Toyota, said data recorders that did not show braking were “far from an exoneration of Toyota and its electronics.”

Mr. Kane said that driver error was always assumed to be the cause of at least some of the complaints but that the recorders alone could not prove that a car did not accelerate on its own.

“You can’t ignore the fact that when they move to an electronic throttle control you basically see a fourfold increase in complaints,” Mr. Kane said. He also said the event data recorders rely “on the same sensing system that is unable to detect the failure to begin with,” and is therefore not “an independent witness.”

Toyota has recalled about 8.5 million vehicles worldwide since November to resolve the floor-mat interference and sticking pedal problems. Some vehicles are subject to both recalls. In issuing the recalls, Toyota acknowledged the problems, but it had not conducted as thorough a review of the complaints.

After the recalls were announced, regulators were flooded with more complaints from drivers who say their Toyota or Lexus accelerated suddenly, or from family members of crash victims alleging a defect was responsible.

The complaints attribute 93 deaths to sudden acceleration by one of the Japanese carmaker’s vehicles. The government ordered Toyota to pay a record $16.4 million fine for waiting too long to initiate a recall after learning that its accelerator pedals contained a defect.

The N.H.T.S.A. is working with the National Academy of Sciences and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to investigate causes of the sudden acceleration reports. The agency received 10 machines capable of interpreting Toyota’s vehicles’ data recorders from the carmaker, but the recorders typically are activated only when the vehicle’s air bag deploys.

Toyota has in various court cases argued against using data from the recorders as reliable sources of evidence. Mr. Michels acknowledged the technology to be “in development” but said it was “maturing” and did provide valuable information.

“What we’re finding is that the E.D.R.’s information is consistent with everything else that is known or determined about the incident,” he said.

The widespread attention given to Toyota’s issues with sudden acceleration has prompted many of the affected vehicles’ owners to have repairs performed more quickly than recalls are usually performed.

Mr. Michels said dealers had fixed nearly 80 percent of the 2.3 million vehicles in the United States included in the sticking pedal recall and about half of the 5.4 million recalled for their floor mats. The carmaker has yet to announce repair procedures for some of the models in the floor-mat recall, including the high-volume Corolla compact sedan.

[Cobrabill]

So what?Shut the F**king car off.Still the cause was an idiot behind the wheel.This changes nothing.

[Locomotive Breath]

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ration-cases/1

[T A 70]

Originally Posted by Bjorn

What I and several others tried to say a good while back....
Driver errors!

I'm with you.

[TempestFugit]

I had that happen in our Toyota and it happened to my wife in the same Toyota. When it happened to me i pulled the floor mat back and it stopped. When it happened to my wife she weaved in, around, and thru traffic at high speed scared to death for several miles.... she said she was almost killed. she will never be convinced that it could have been the floor mat. We have had to agree to disagree on that one.

[goatwgn]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Aren't the Toyotas electric throttle?
(no throttle cable?)

I personally wouldn't trust a piece of electronic to control your throttle.



If it decides to think you want full throttle, you can't do anything about it.

Yes it is, as well as most every car nowadays. The theory behind this, I beleive, is to "simplify" control of traction controls, cruise control,and anything else that is manipulated, or manipulates the throttle assy, as well as "protecting" the transmissions and other substandard components that might fail under full power. Personally, I agree that an old fashioned cable should still be there. And there has been "problems" with these things. I personnally have installed new pedal assys and the throttle body on these later model Toyotas, that have had idle, driveability, and cruise control problems (I work in an independent shop), and while the big "debate" was in full swing at Toyota, these parts were on a nationwide back order. These morons could have still cut the car off, however, during these "extended" full throttle events (even with the corney "push button" starter switch.