[Rocky 389]

Yeah, me too...I've had 11, 55-57 Pontiacs and don't ever remember having any issues when filling the cooling systems. Maybe I did it wrong?

[U47]

Hiner, can stainless deteriorate like I mentioned way down in my post? I do remember the tubes coming out in pieces and very thin pieces too, kind of like in flakes, in fact the third time was the last straw for my dad, because his fear was that all these tiny pieces were going to get stuck in the block/heads.
Just like the HD GMC truck engines, the 420A's were also HD 4 bolt blocks too. I asked one of my friends here who was primairly a Olds racer in the 50's & has owned many repair shops if he had any trouble. He tells me of replacing tubes in the V-8 and not being able to get tubes for the flathead 6&8's and putting them on the road without them. He also expressed concern for the flathead, being without (the tube) them that the possibility of detonation was much greater just because of the flatheads combustion chamber design. I'm going to see him tomorrow so I will pick his brain about the type of material he thinks the tubes for the V-8 were made from.
In some of the below post was mentioned that the tubes that came out were in good condition, and was wondering if ( in 50+ years ) if there might have been a parts change without anyone ever knowing it. I guess it's possible there are some engines out there that have never been apart, but that is a long time.

Don

[poison heart]

No, all tubes were stainless. The ones in both my sets of 59 heads and the ones from my 59 GMC were identical and all 3 sets are in perfect shape with NO corrosion.

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Rocky 389

Yeah, me too...I've had 11, 55-57 Pontiacs and don't ever remember having any issues when filling the cooling systems. Maybe I did it wrong?

I believe he was talking about the LT1 cooling system. I had an LT1 F-body and it did take a bit of time for all of the air to come out when changing coolant.

Originally Posted by poison heart

No, all tubes were stainless. The ones in both my sets of 59 heads and the ones from my 59 GMC were identical and all 3 sets are in perfect shape with NO corrosion.

Strange. Stainless and iron should be compatible, even in a potentially corrosive environment. Then why did Don and so many other folks have corrosion problems with these tubes?

Originally Posted by U47

Heiner, can stainless deteriorate like I mentioned way down in my post? I do remember the tubes coming out in pieces and very thin pieces too, kind of like in flakes, <snip> Don

Only stainless I know of that isn't really stainless (it will rust somewhat) is 400-series stainless. GM spec'd exhaust systems out of this stuff for years starting in mid 70's, I believe. Could these coolant tubes be made from that stuff too?

Don, did your dad use coolant with inhibitor, or was he the frugal German and just use plain water? In SoCal, there wasn't any need to use antifreeze, and besides, water cools better than coolant because it transfers heat better. But you'd certainly get corrosion issues by doing that.

[CATBIRD]

hmmm.....2 stainless tubes with holes drilled in them, 2 castings, 4 corbin clamps, 4 5/16" bolts, 2 gaskets, 8" of rubber hose, and 4 additional assembly steps, times 400,000 plus engines per year for the next 19 years, with no measurable decrease in performance! I think that the beancounters won this one......John

[U47]

Hiner, Oh Ja naturlich!
Don't you remember the story I told you when in about 1967 I had this street race and at the top end of 4th gear the little left side water pump hose that goes from the pump to the head burst! must have been about 5,800 and the fan blows the coolent all over the place including the windshield, so like I can't see where I'm going? Thought I told you about that. That happened just before we switched block/heads to equa-flow type.

Don

[poison heart]

I don't see how they could corrode. Like I said, I've only got 3 sets of tubes but all of them are in great shape with no sign of corrosion at all. I think it was the cost

[Jack Gifford]

I'm in agreement with the posts above- that topping up a reverse-coolant-flow Pontiac is nothing out of the ordinary.

At the risk of repeating myself- the stainless tubes were not a "GMC thing". The half-dozen sets I've taken out of '57/58 Pontiac engines were all a good stainless alloy and showed zero degradation- even after fifty years. I only had a couple of '55 engines, and frankly can't remember anything about the tubes in them.

[poison heart]

Sounds right to me

[Pontirag]

the brass will corode, stainless will not. I has str8's and six's and a few dodges that all had brass, some were in advanced states of corrosion, 5 each 57 and later v8's had stainless withoutany signs of corosion, mabe some of color staining.

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by U47

Hiner, Oh Ja naturlich!
Don't you remember the story I told you when in about 1967 I had this street race and at the top end of 4th gear the little left side water pump hose that goes from the pump to the head burst! must have been about 5,800 and the fan blows the coolent all over the place including the windshield, so like I can't see where I'm going? Thought I told you about that. That happened just before we switched block/heads to equa-flow type.

Don

Now that you mention it, I do remember that.

Don, you need to sell some of your cars and build or buy an RV. Went up yesterday and today playing in the clouds over PV at 3000'. Used 'em as pylons to fly over, under and around. Great fun!

[U47]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

Now that you mention it, I do remember that.

Don, you need to sell some of your cars and build or buy an RV. Went up yesterday and today playing in the clouds over PV at 3000'. Used 'em as pylons to fly over, under and around. Great fun!

Funny you mentioning that, I was at Estrella war bird museum today with the local AACA chapter. The museum has four of the five type of planes I worked on when I was in the Navy,T34 (Beechcraft Model 45 Mentor)
A-7 Corsair 2, A-4 Skyhawk, S-2 Tracker. They only need one more plane to have all five and that would be a P-2V Neptune. One of the guys there asked me if I had any experience with R-1820's, I said yes, but only in school 40 or so years ago, but active duty plenty of time with R-3350's and westinghouse J-34's, J-52's, J-57's and the little Continental 0-470-13 Six. What I found out next was the Pres. of the local chapter of AACA was a ADJ in another V-P squadron in Alameda flying in P-2V's like me. How rare is that?? Plus one guy in the So. Cal. chapter of OCA was a MAD operator in a V-P squadron too!
I know, I know, you were going 200MPH @ 20MPG. You must have been doing that over the Catalina channel, was Jenn with you? Little late for me to do that, how about a little CPR at 5,000 ft?? RIGHT!

Don

[U47]

Finally after three week-ends of rain, had our weekly Saturday morning coffee cruise and was able to talk with a friend who worked on these reverse flow Pontiac's. He remembers the tubes coming out in pieces like I remembered on my 59.

Don

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by U47

... He remembers the tubes coming out in pieces like I remembered on my 59...

That's difficult for me to understand, after they went to the stainlesss steel tubes, and every one I've removed has been in perfect condition (a fair number of them, since my first experience in 1959).

Here's a "what if": what if, during rebuilding, some tubes got left in blocks when the blocks were acid-tanked? It was pretty common to acid-tank blocks during the fifties and sixties.

[poison heart]

I'm with you Jack. all my tubes are perfect

What is the best way to pull the damn things out? I tried with some needle nose but I didn't want to tear them up and they were not budging.

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by poison heart

What is the best way to pull the damn things out? I tried with some needle nose but I didn't want to tear them up and they were not budging.

My limited experience (one tube removed from a '58 head) was successful. I used a set of duck bill pliers, pulled gently while wiggling. The big end of the tube was slightly deformed by the pliers, but I got it back in shape using a piece of 3/4" wood dowel.

[poison heart]

Oh ok thanks

[PRC]

For the record, the stainless tubes in my '59 were in good condition. I am assuming they are the original ones. I know they have been in there for over 30 years.

[Rocky 389]

I tried to remove the brass tubes from my 57 Pontiac heads this afternoon...ends kept breaking off with my channel lock pliars. I couldnt' get 'em out but they're a definitely a brass color, very soft and break off easily.
The tubes I removed from mystraight 8 and straight 6 cars were also brass.....came out easily in good condition so I reused them after a little clean up.

[Pontirag]

is there any special way to remove them without doing them harm. I got several that are stainless and I would hate to ruin them trying to take them out>