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#41
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Mike here: You nailed the diagnostic on the head, the seals are metal clasp type in the forward drum between the back of the Stator and in the front drum area, one was broken in half and the other was unclasped!
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#42
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Quote:
Visual inspection of bushing wear, parts wear is the big deal for the TH400, all rebuilds." Mikes reply: I had to replace the Torque Converter and the pump as well, good advice, thank you, long past due. |
#43
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Quote:
2)I bought a new Bushing driver kit for this rebuild and learned how to Bush the Bushings upon Installation. A good blow on the hammer to set the Bushing, using a larger disc and steady blows thereafter, until you can't go anymore. Then use a smaller disc inside driving just below the champhord edge or beveled edge, to seat the Bushing properly. On the Bushings that are to be bottomed out, drive until you hear that metal-to-metal sound, only. Then to Bush the Bushing, one could use a mating shaft through that Bushing, by tapping a hammer (on a suitable area) above and below the Bushing to be reformed, to resize a deformed Bushing installation. 3) I used Torrington Bearing s in 4 places, rear of the case and 3 places past the center support. 4)There is front and rear end play and then there are the 3 clutch pack Tolerances. Then above what the factory talks about is the rear Bands effect on the Sun, Ring and Planetary gear housing, that can be shimmed for less play when in use. In addition, you can reduce the end play and rollerize and shim the main shaft to rear ring gear area at the rear of the gears. Note, there are sites that explain this deeper than this explanation, even though I used these procedures when I built my Trans, I can't explain it better without reading through my notes at this time, sorry. I hope you got the Idea. Racers make these mods. 5) I also used the Metal clasp type seal rings as the factory used in those days. My Pistons at each clutch pack used the lip seals that are added to the piston, my reading likes them better than the latter ones that had the rubber added to the pistons. The large Accumulator/Servo used a rubber ring on the large piston though. 6) Sonnox makes a Pin kit for the Accumulators/Servo that are adjustable, so you start off with new settings that can be shimmed in the future with washers supplied in the kit. I used these kits and the Pressure Regulator /Boost Valve kit too. 7) The Center support was in good shape and the Case Lugs were not damaged as well. I used the Metal clasp rings on all 4 areas and the socket I had was in unused condition. 8) I put two lubricated O-rings on the filter tube where it shoves into the pump; and two lubricated O-rings on the modulator where it goes into the case, as you said. 9) Verify Governor operation, and tune the governor as needed to get the shift points where you want them. Don't dick with the modulator to tune the shift points, at least not excessively. Mikes reply: I can't do this until I get past the shifting problem, I am experiencing. Also, my can type Modulator is tossed. 10) We blew out the Radiator and secondary cooler and I purchased a new Torque Converter from Hughes and it works well. I plan on buying the Metal 3/8 lines after I break in the Trans. rebuild and fix my current shift problem. 11) Lucky for me this 1967 TH 400 PC code Trans. came from the factory with sprag clutch on the Direct drum and roller-clutch at the front gear. "MAKE SURE THE SPRAG/ROLLER CLUTCH SPINS THE PROPER DIRECTION." Mikes reply: We checked the rotation as we built the Trans. 12) ATSG manual was used to build this Trans. as well as the 1967 service manual in conjunction with Internet documents and many online videos. Plus, online forums such as PY forum. |
#44
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Mikes reply: I would like to add my other site for you to reference after reading this post.
SEE: 1967 TH 400 "Fresh rebuild", Problem in shifting! |
#45
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Mike here to continue my Trans. rebuild and any discussion that has to do with "The Pontiac Experience", say anything here and all are welcome. The unwritten law on "how long a Thread should be" is now established by the modulator and we will keep it to 800 this time. Fair enough let's continue...
Lou and I are taking Pressure readings on a TH 400 Trans. That we successfully completed recently, although other problems were raised, before we could test and tune the rebuilt Trans. SEE: "Question about 041 Cam", this is where you can pick up the former conversations on this PY forum and learn a lot from those who know best, I am just your narrator for the duration and am learning as I go. This is the following results of our recent test while garaged: "Vacuum hose is connected to the vacuum Modulator". By the book PSI/ DATE Closed Throttle/ 12/6/23 @ 1200 rpm./ Trans. Repaired/ Trans. Broken Drive 70/ 110/ 90-110 Neutral 70/ 150/ 110 Park 70/ 100/ 95-120 Second 150/ 200/ 90 Low first 150/ 200/ 90 Reverse 107/ 210/ 100-125 Note: I think I got this Info. From a Tempest Service Manual? Note: We think that the higher pressure than the book is because we installed a sonnex pressure regulator upgrade in the pump, it has "o" - rings to seal, while raising the pressure gradually as the rpm's increases. "This next Test is done with the Vacuum modulator disconnected", In the garage. Zero output speed @ 1200 rpm. By the book/ Rebuilt Trans. Drive 150/ 110 Neutral 150/ 150 Park 150/ 150 Second 150/ 190 Low first 150/ 190 Reverse 244/ 250 Mike wants to know what "Cliff" thinks about these numbers, so far? The road test is coming tomorrow, if all goes correctly. We let the vehicle down off the blocks and hope there are no problems with underload conditions when we actually drive the vehicle on the highway. Lou found these numbers in a book, most likely the 1967 Pontiac Manual. Vacuum disconnected/ Vacuum connected by the book/ by the book Drive 70/ 150 Neutral 70/ 150 Park 70/ 150 Second 150/ 150 First 150/ 150 Reverse 265/ 244 Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 12-10-2023 at 07:31 AM. |
#46
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Looks to me from the Before/After PSI readings; the Center-Support Babbit Bushing was clapped-out, and replaced.
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#47
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Schurkey wonders why the pressures are lower when the vacuum modulator is not supplied with vacuum. The pressure is higher with vacuum???
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#48
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Maybe we could all go "third person" and make this really all weird ?
Myself, I would recommend not rebuilding anything. That way no one can over think it all and make simple things super complicated. T400s are very tough, plenty full and cheap. Hard to screw one up. Just get a Sessions book and be done with it. Last edited by Dragncar; 12-11-2023 at 12:32 AM. |
#50
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Schurkey suspected as much, but was looking for confirmation...and to make a point.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Schurkey For This Useful Post: | ||
#51
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Y'all are hilarious.
Vertigto always thought this thread/style was particularly odd...glad I'm not the only one.
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1970 GTO (Granada Gold) - 400 / TH400 Last edited by vertigto; 12-11-2023 at 05:18 PM. |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vertigto For This Useful Post: | ||
#52
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Oh, believe me, you're not the only one, dataway thinks so too.
Although, I think Yoda is on board with it.
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I'm World's Best Hyperbolist !! |
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dataway For This Useful Post: | ||
#53
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Formulas mom here.... Its ok to snicker Its impolite to point and laugh..
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If your not at the table you're on the menu A man who falls for everything stands for nothing. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulas For This Useful Post: | ||
#54
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Oh my god this is hilarious the blind leading the blind. Wait got clean my glasses. Oh now I see. LOL
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The Following User Says Thank You to Gach For This Useful Post: | ||
#55
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OMG, Gach made sentences with proper spelling. it's not Gach. Need a "too", a "can", and a commas. Still not Gach.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Half-Inch Stud For This Useful Post: | ||
#58
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Mike made a mistake on post #45, correction below
"Vacuum Disconnected", @ 1200 RPM, Rebuilt Trans. Pressure readings. By the Book PSI/ Test result PSI Drive 70/ 110 Neutral 70/ 150 Park 70/ 150 Second 150/ 190 First 150/ 190 Reverse 265/ 250 Repaired above is to post #45 "Vacuum Disconnected." "Vacuum connected" below, @ 1200 RPM, Rebuilt Trans. Pressure readings. By the Book PSI/ Test # 1, result PSI/ 12/11/23 Test # 2, result PSI Drive 150/ 110/ 120 Neutral 150/ 150/ 150 Park 150/ 100/ 150 Second 150/ 200/ 150 First 150/ 200/ 150 Reverse 244/ 210/ 230 |
#59
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Quote:
Thank you for asking, we had the hose from the Trans. out, Barb fitting to the Pressure Gauge, get burned by the Header and lost some fluid and smoked like hell. We re-routed the Hose and wrapped it in Header cloth and inserted a metal shield under the collector where it meets the exhaust pipe and ran the hose under that, so as long as the hose were using can take at least 300 psi, we should get our "on the road test" readings by this weekend or sooner? We secured the hose to the frame this time using a mount, with some slack, in order "not to pinch" the hose either. The hose and Gauge come up to the driver's side mirror and is long enough to reach the passenger, who will record the test readings while were underway. The type of Tests that we do will be from what we wrote down on paper that we will take with us on the road. |
#60
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None of that matters. Trans Go shift kit after a basic rebuild with basic modifications and run that B!&h !
Is this transmission even doing anything wrong ? Rebuilt several, never a issue except for drinking a few beers while installing front pump and broke a ring. Caused some damage due to me, not the wonderfully designed Turbo Hydromatic 400 ! If you have a good pump, seals/bushings are OK and the clutch/steel clearances are right these things work and can take a beating. Its the people who screw them up. Or just overthink their own problems that do not exist in reality and chase their tails. |
Closed Thread |
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