[cpu]

Originally Posted by Ramairnacho

...I learned from The group that the actual cowl tag was made on assembly date and that's the beginning of the assembly that could last months if there was a defect. ...

Hi,
According to John Z's excellent report over on Camaros.org regarding 1969 F-Body assembly process, it took about two days (four shifts) for a body to go through the Fisher Body system.
The Trim Tag (cowl tag) was installed during the body framing process. Additional body assembly and paint and trim came after this (in '69).

Perhaps the assembly process on the 1970 F-body was similar in process and duration as the 1969 F-body.

It's not known for sure (see Keith's comments) when the date was assigned, but I suppose the car body might be near half way through the Fisher process (at Norwood) when the Trim Tag was affixed.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Singleton

....So, 5A cowl date with 5C completion date

You have an 05A Norwood car
John posted an 05E Norwood car

Here is the May 1970 calendar
Boom - peas and carrots
No bending or twisting or jumping months or worrying about a Monday
Just fits right in there.
They all will , unless one suffers from human error or a repop trim tag.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Ramairnacho

#1 = and that's the beginning of the assembly that could last months if there was a defect. Is this still correct ?


#2 = And the day before shipping date is is the end or cut off on a date code car. Is this correct too?


#3 = So if a car had a bad engine then engine date may be a few months off cowl tag. Or maybe find a part on car a few weeks after cowl tag too I guess. Please correct me if im.wrong.

#1 = I wouldn't focus on rare exceptions too hard , unless you encounter one on your own car.
Roll with the standard of 1-2 weeks maximum from start to finish.o
Worry about the exceptions on a case by case basis.
A lot of what appear to be wide date spreads from build week to invoice date are when folks don't realize they are not looking at invoice #1 ,
or even a swapped or repop trim tag.
Case by Case


#2 = One or Two days usually from completion , until invoice #1 is generated.
So you go backwards from that point checking dates.
Some parts have multiple dates on them - a casting date, an assembly date or an installation date.
Just have to consider what and where and why for each part.

After casting , a lot of parts have to be machined and assembled , then delivered to the plant.
Allocate time for all that.
Many parts were made by outside vendors not on the same premises as the plants.

Also - All engines had to come from PMD Michigan, and shipped to other plants.

#3 = Bad engine scenario is another extremity.
Things like that don't have a standard to follow. Put it on a shelf , its purely guess work.

Any part dated after the build week needs careful consideration.
Some parts would be ridiculous , some parts might be acceptable.
And the date might actually be an installation date on a certain thing.
Case by Case - name your part , but you can't make that statement on very many parts at all.

The whole process was supposed to be controlled and all content on hand before the build sheet gets sent to the line to start the build.
GM started doing cars on assembly lines way before ours came along.
But sometimes , shet happened.

[Held for Ransom]

I stated it before and I still believe it today. For 1970's.
A = 1 thru 7
B = 8 thru 14
C = 15 thru 21
D = 22 thru 28
E = 29 thru 31, where applicable.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

That might hold until you hit an F

But its a lot better than jumping months and worrying about where Monday lands .... etc

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

We can't do much with a build week "date" anyway. It can be 1 day , 2 days , up to 7 days.
But jumping months or counting from Mondays isn't going to work properly at all.

[johnta1]

I emailed Kurt S. about the date, he basically said it didn't matter.
Depended on whoever did the stamping what they wanted.



If Fisher did it like LOS or VN (Firebirds) they had a date sequence that would/could give you the actual date.

Or the later (70's) plants that had the 6 digits at bottom of tag.

The date code may or may not determine when it actual goes down the assembly line or how it leaves the final line.

[Keith Seymore]

Most plants have an accumulator, or body bank, between the body shop and paint, and then again between paint and trim.

This allows vehicles to be shuffled around to level the workload downstream (ie, can't have too many tripowers in a row, can't have too many A/C jobs in a row, can't have too many manual trans cars in a row, etc), to be held for a more extended lineside repair, or to be physically stored for a little while in case a major component is missing (like a fancy engine). It also provides a reserve of vehicles to draw from should the body shop or paint shop have an unexpected work stoppage (which they often did) and allows the final line to keep running.

The home plant in Pontiac Michigan had such an arrangement, as did my alma mater Flint Assembly.

Fremont did not - once those cars were loaded they went straight through all the way out the back. I can't speak to some of the other plants (Van Nuys, Norwood, Baltimore) with any authority.

K

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I emailed Kurt S. about the date, he basically said it didn't matter.
Depended on whoever did the stamping what they wanted.

In a nutshell - he has no clue. Or didn't understand the question.
Just sort of a stamping that might mean whatever they wanted. wow

Startles me how we tie so many parameters around trim tag build weeks and make it work.
And even amongst multiple plants in most instances (GTO stuff)
Is it magic ?

It just doesn't matter to Kurt S.- is the correct answer to whatever you asked him.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Singleton

In the interest of number crunching, my 1970 Formula is a 5A build. Which, using the May calendar in post #1, would be the 1st or 2nd, fri or Saturday that Fisher began building the body.
The air cleaner has an ink date on the inside of 5/7/70, (Thursday the 2nd week), and a invoice date of 5/11/70, (Monday the 3rd week). So, 5A cowl date with 5C completion date

05A would be may 4th week start.
The week designations are for full work weeks, even if it runs into another month and they "typically" start on a Monday.

[johnta1]

This was Kurt's last reply to me yesterday.

I know some people that tried to correlate a Fisher calendar to a regular calendar - lot of work for not much.

I agree with Bruce, that's the way I always understood it.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Many parts were made by outside vendors not on the same premises as the plants.

This applies to SUB ASSEMBLIES as well.
Example, a Alternator, or Starter is a SUB assembly, not a " Part".
These cars are finally built with 80% sub assemblies.
Dates on Sub assemblies can vary , and dates on parts of sub assemblies
Can vary more.
A date code on a M13 transmission can PRE date a vehicle by a YEAR. I know, my GTO was built this way.
Nothing is etched in stone or " exact", but can be typical.
Keep in mind MANY 1970 Firebirds have "9" as model year designation on the firewall stamp(s). Yeah, 1969...