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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#1
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Now can sellers come back to earth?
I was watching the BJ auction in Florida and saw two pretty good Pontiacs go for 25k and less. There was a red 68 GTO, although not perfect, but pretty dang nice sold for around 25k. Then a red with white interior 69 SJ Grand Prix barely broke 20k. It was announced that it was an older restoration, but again looked pretty good.
I realize that the auction lights sometime make a car look better than it actually is, and the same is true with pictures. If you check Ebay, dealers are asking close to 50k for similar cars. I realize they have to buy these cars and make a profit, but doubling your money
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LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE HE!! OUT OF THE WAY!!! HONEST JERRY'S SPEED AND EQUIPMENT
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#2
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I was thinking the same thing this past week! Not a Chevy guy but I went on Ebay and looked at some Chevelles and Impalas. Oh my!! I then went to the completed listings and found most of the ones sold were under 25k Alot of 69 Chevelles were 50g plus asking price! It seems like most cars nowadays on Ebay are dealer cars > This also seems true for cars being sold on other venues on the internet.There are some deals at the auction houses to be had but most of these will be snatched up by the dealers and then resold down the road at twice the price! Alot of guys rather buy from dealers than private owners. Fred
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#3
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They did a preview of the 69 GP with the 428 & I fell in love with it! The only thing I would have changed for it to be my favorite car would have been to paint it black.
Had I been there this time, I might have had to "lift my arm"!!! I cringed when the guy doing the preview called it a "big block" 428! LOL God bless Bill https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...closed.614419/
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Your QUALITY Pontiac Transporter Since 1983 Bills' Auto Works Est 1983 & still going strong! 1955 Chevy Altered W.B. Gasser 1955 Nash Ambassador Custom Lemans 1964 Grand Prix 1966 Catalina Conv. 421+ 1966 Ambassador DPL 2dr HT 1966 Ambassador Cust. 2 DR HT 1967 Marlin 1967 Toronado 1973 Nova Full Chassis Car 1992 Jag XJS Conv 1992 Jag XJS Coupe 2007 Cad XLR-V Supercharged Roadster |
#4
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I really believe you are seeing the results of several factors playing out at the same time. Similar to what 55-57 Chevy lovers experienced 5 years ago and model T people decades before that. The muscle car crowd is aging out. Owning and enjoying a muscle car is taking a back seat to all kinds of expensive health issues which require large amounts of cash for co-pays and deductibles to stay alive. Muscle cars that are self-restored and older restorations become a bargain when the sellers need cash in a hurry. Combine that with a rapidly diminishing number of buyers and you have what we are experiencing now. When SD Catalinas are selling for half of what they were bringing 7 years ago, you know the market just doesn't have enough interested buyers with money for a nice steel SD car. Grand Prix's, same deal. They made 97,000 of them in 69. I love them. But only an SJ with a 4-speed will bring maximum $. There are a few wealthy Pontiac buyers out there that will always have the $ to buy the best and rarest of the rare. All the rest, the typical non-Ram Air IV GTO, Firebirds, and the like will continue to be great buys. My friend who I am always mentioning that buys and sells these cars for a living is buying like crazy right now. He specifically buys over-restored, rotisserie restorations of regular muscle cars now. He is buying near perfect examples from all the manufacturers at 30-40% of what the restoration cost to perform. In the last few months a few examples are: a Dodge Dart GTS 340 column auto, a 390 4-speed Mustang. This is a great time to get into a muscle car and ENJOY it as it was intended. People who really love these cars for what they are have a great opportunity to buy one now and have a decade or two of enjoyment from the car and still not get hurt on depreciation. As a retirement investment, not so good right now.
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#5
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I didn’t think it would happen for a few more years, but if they are on there way down then they are going to keep going.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#6
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Same thing is happening with parts sales. Most all the cars have been done 1, 2 or 3 times coupled with the fact they are now repoping parts that should have been done 20 years ago.
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Practicing social distancing for 65+ years |
#7
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This is from an auction this past February. It was a really nice car inside and out.
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It is easier to fool a man than it is to convince he has been fooled |
#8
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My finger in the wind says modified cars will be what keeps these cars alive as vibrant collectors. The resto's and historic rare cars will always have a place. And the exotic rare will always be king of the heap.
Compare the mentioned Model T and 57 cars. Bone stock are probably the least marketable to the general hobby public. Younger crowd wants handling, tech advantages in performance, and non stock rims. I like that this is the spirit of hot rodding in the first place. I see a shift, not a demise. Also a correction to real.
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72 Bird |
#9
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It seems like this topic comes up every year. Prices go up and go down and go up again. If we could accurately predict long term trends we'd all be millionaires.
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#10
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Quote:
I'm building mine in a resto-mod style but engine, trans, suspension, brakes and more are being upgraded in the process. It's necessary IMO to keep the car safe, engaging and roadworthy. |
#11
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Jerry, dealers are the worst for new and used, or classics. They'll rip out your heart to get at our money.
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Gary Get in, ShuT Up, Hang On! Member of the Baltimore Built Brotherhood MY GTO built 4th Week of March 1966 "Crusin' Is Not A Crime" Keep yer stick on the ice. |
#12
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Don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know the baby boomers will leave the market and the group coming after is much smaller. Supply and demand will prevail.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#13
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Gloom and doom threads come up every so often.
I don't buy and sell cars, and have no idea of their value. I have all of the collector cars I need, so need to participate in that market. But I am VERY active is the selling of parts. Carburetor kit sales (even with competition from those acquiring stuff out of country), are stronger than ever; and I turn down an average of 25 carburetor restorations weekly. With the demand for the kits, no time to restore carburetors. Does that sound like gloom and doom? Many younger folks are getting into the hobby, and while we sell muscle car kits (and carbs) like the thesis of this thread, right now our two largest sellers are kits for Caterpillar, and kits for 1915~1935 Buick. Doesn't sound like the market is dead for older vehicles. Enjoy the hobby; the future will take care of itself. Jon.
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"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air". "The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor". If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri). Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings. |
#14
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My nephew just graduated from Clemson with a degree in mechanical engineering. Very low student loan debt and no credit card or any other debt to speak of. Making over 70 grand a year not married no children. He is very interested in classic cars and muscle cars, always has been. When he graduated I figured a charger or Camaro would follow. NOPE a Mazda 6. I asked him why and got an answer about gas mileage. My youngest daughter is only 3 but she LOVES to be in the garage and “helping” me fix my car. That is a seed I hope I can nurture and make her into a gearhead. If it’s up to me she will have something very cool to drive in HS. My oldest daughter is fixing to be driving age and I hope I can steer her to a falcon or a 6 cylinder Chevy II or something like that but I doubt it. She’s eclectic and is self conscious and will want to fit in with the crowd. I will probably give her my wife’s car and get my wife something new. Hopefully a newer Denali. My Yukon has 356,000 miles on it I checked just the other day. Other than being dirty you’d never know. Since I am knee deep in this restoration I hope I can get a half a million miles out of it. We will see.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#15
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Also remember that the stock market has been doing relatively well past couple years. Seems to be inversely related to classic cars because they are easy to put money into and can be sold anywhere. Stock market goes down, classics go up. Stock market goes up, classics go down. Too much money for people to let sit when they could be investing.
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#16
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I do find it ironic the venue (Barrett Jackson) that drove the prices up now has better deals than local sellers. I’ve been looking for a drivers quality Pontiac locally and advertised prices are very high. Same thing on eBay but if you look at sold auctions most are 10-15K price range not the 35-80K dealer listings.
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http://ultimategto.com/rest05cars1.htm |
#17
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Quote:
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#18
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WHAT the...?
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70 GTO Restomod -- 400/200-4r, nothing to see here 70 Firebird -- 455/400 69 Mach 1 -- 390-C6 07 Escalade EXT |
#19
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BJ A
I agree , I seen the Buick GSX numbers matching go for under 50K GET REAL SELLERS. TIME TO ADJUST YOUR BJ wanna B cars to some normal prices
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#20
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The comment was made to attempt to refute the "wisdom" that as the older generation dies off, the market for the cars of the youth of that generation dies as well.
For probably 20 years, our best seller as far as carburetor rebuilding kits has been Caterpillar. The 1915 to 1935 Buick kits seem to be gaining in popularity. We sell more of them each year. Yes, we still sell a fair amount of kits for Pontiac, but the percentage is less than it used to be. Yesterday, received a request for a kit for 1912 Ford Model T; one of the few carburetors from 1912 up that we do NOT offer a kit. The market, at least for parts, varies greatly from year to year. As I stated earlier, I do not know the market for vehicles, but as the market for parts is steady, it would seem there is also a market for vehicles. We have complete sales records since 1974 on our sales computer. After doing this for so many years, I can look at the sales data for a five year sequence, and tell you which years were years with Olympic games. If the previous year was a presidential election year, I can tell which party won the election. As someone posted earlier, stocks are doing relatively well at this time. Should the stock market decline, historically car prices go up. Enjoy the hobby for the sake of the hobby. Jon.
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"Good carburetion is fuelish hot air". "The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one given to you by your neighbor". If you truly believe that "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes! Owner of The Carburetor Shop, LLC (of Missouri). Current caretaker of the remains of Stromberg Caburetor, and custodian of the existing Carter and Kingston carburetor drawings. |
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