[SRR]

SPC-7 Melling. Smooth idle lots of torque.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by SRR

SPC-7 Melling. Smooth idle lots of torque.

Intake duration at .050 is 212
.272 lobe lift
Just .408 lift with 1.5 rocker.

If one was to use a standard lifter the duration @ .050 is decent.
The lobe needs TONS more area (lift). Would loose in mid-range and top.

Target valve lift should be around .506

Agree on what Paul said about Voodoo lobes design.
Ultradyne lobes are similar, same designer of course.

Some Jones lobes are even more asymmetrical, 7 degree difference between max lift and conventional centerline.

Rhoads VMAX are hands down the best bleed lifter, adjustable similar to a solid tappet.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

OP never said which type of cam he was considering. Just asked for the highest torque from idle to 5000. I'm not suggesting he buy the 231/239 cam, just saying that this cam made lots of low end torque in a 413 with about 1/2 point more compression. Also, the slow bleed lifters had something to do with these high torque numbers. A fast bleed lifter is just going to bleed off lift and duration needed to make torque. Now when talking bigger cams or other brand cams, then it's a different deal. If this guys engine is closer to 9.2:1 compression, I would think about something a tad smaller, maybe a custom with the 227/231 lobes. As I have said before, Voodoo lobes cannot be compared to other lobes with similar duration. Voodoo lobes are offset from cam core centerline. No other lobes are like that. This changes everything most people know about cams. Completely changes their characteristics. It changes the way we see LSA's. This is why the 231/239, which is fairly big for a 413, made so much torque down low. It peaked HP at only 5300 RPM, so it's not like it's being revved to the moon. This thing made over 400 ft/ lbs. of torque from 1400 rpm to 5900 RPM. Made over 500 ft. lbs. from 2800-4200 RPM. Most 400's never make 500 Ft. lbs., period. What more do you want from a 400. Pretty damn good if you ask me. Here's the dyno sheets. I dare any Comp Magnum cam to try to do that.

Paul,
Very nice numbers. Your dyno sheets show average torque from 3800 to 5600. If I have not keyed in anything wrong the average torque from 1430 to 5000 is actually higher.

Stan

Engine_Size_=__411.6837_ci

____________________________
__RPM___Horse__Torque___BMEP
_3800___368.6___509.4__186.6
_3900___376.0___506.4__185.5
_4000___384.4___504.7__184.9
_4100___392.9___503.3__184.4
_4200___400.5___500.8__183.4
_4300___406.7___496.8__182.0
_4400___411.8___491.5__180.0
_4500___416.6___486.2__178.1
_4600___421.5___481.2__176.3
_4700___426.8___476.9__174.7
_4800___431.8___472.5__173.1
_4900___437.1___468.5__171.6
_5000___441.9___464.2__170.0
_5100___446.7___460.0__168.5
_5200___449.1___453.6__166.2
_5300___452.9___448.8__164.4
_5400___455.1___442.6__162.1
_5500___457.3___436.7__160.0
_5600___460.0___431.4__158.0
AVG:
_4700___423.0___475.6__174.2
MIN:
_3800___368.6___431.4__158.0
MAX:
_5600___460.0___509.4__186.6

Average_based_on_=_19_points

=================

Engine_Size_=__411.6837_ci

____________________________
__RPM___Horse__Torque___BMEP
_1430___110.1___404.2__148.1
_1500___118.4___414.7__151.9
_1644___136.4___435.7__159.6
_1761___149.7___446.5__163.6
_1900___161.4___446.2__163.4
_2000___169.8___445.8__163.3
_2100___180.7___452.0__165.6
_2200___191.0___455.9__167.0
_2344___203.4___455.8__167.0
_2502___229.8___482.3__176.7
_2616___244.1___490.0__179.5
_2731___258.8___497.8__182.3
_2845___273.8___505.5__185.2
_2992___291.8___512.2__187.6
_3100___304.1___515.2__188.7
_3200___316.3___519.1__190.1
_3300___326.4___519.4__190.3
_3400___338.2___522.4__191.4
_3500___348.5___522.9__191.5
_3600___356.4___520.0__190.5
_3700___361.0___512.4__187.7
_3800___368.6___509.4__186.6
_3900___376.0___506.4__185.5
_4000___384.4___504.7__184.9
_4100___392.9___503.3__184.4
_4200___400.5___500.8__183.4
_4300___406.7___496.8__182.0
_4400___411.8___491.5__180.0
_4500___416.6___486.2__178.1
_4600___421.5___481.2__176.3
_4700___426.8___476.9__174.7
_4800___431.8___472.5__173.1
_4900___437.1___468.5__171.6
_5000___441.9___464.2__170.0
AVG:
_3281___305.5___483.5__177.1
MIN:
_1430___110.1___404.2__148.1
MAX:
_5000___441.9___522.9__191.5

Average_based_on_=_34_points

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

Intake duration at .050 is 212
.272 lobe lift
Just .408 lift with 1.5 rocker.

If one was to use a standard lifter the duration @ .050 is decent.
The lobe needs TONS more area (lift). Would loose in mid-range and top.

That's the exact RA III camshaft I run in my 400 to comply with PS rules.

Yes the lift sucks, I'd like to see more but rules dictate no more than a 1% change.

Even so, installed at 106.5*, stock converter, and only a 3.31 gear, the 400 does fairly well in the grunt department right off idle and moves the car out of the hole decently. Needs more rear gear to be optimized though. MPH isn't terrible but can be better. Pass corrects to a 12.78 at 106 mph. I have yet to get this setup on the chassis dyno but I will. In the 400 I have run it out (albeit accidentally) to 5700 rpm and still pulling.
My setup is similar to the OP's except I'm at 10:1 compression, and I have bone stock unported #12 heads as per rules.

https://youtu.be/er1z7PpqsnY

https://youtu.be/uIFkggwDY-8

[ponyakr]

"...My intent is to match the cam to the ported heads and compression and maximize power off idle to 5000 rpm, which is where it will operate 99% of the time."

So, can you afford the $1000 or more price tag of a hydraulic roller cam set-up(depending on which lifters you buy), or do you want info about only HFT cams ? These are 2 different animals. There has been discussion here about both flat tapper & roller cams.

A Summit flat tappet cam is $73. Most major brand HFT shelf cams are $150 or less. Most HR cams are $400 or more, plus shipping. Decent HFT lifters are near $60 to less than $200. Decent HR lifters are near $400 & up. Special length pushrods are probably near $150. A polymer dist gear for use with the HR cam is $125 + shipping.

So, the guys here need to know which type cam you want.

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the correct roller cam will out perform the best correct HFT cam. So, if you can easily afford the HR cam, then it's a no-brainer. So, if you let the guys know which you are going to buy, that will narrow the discussion, & might prevent some confusion, since some are not "comparing apples to apples", as they say. I'm not an engine builder, so I'm out of this discussion.

[Formulajones]

SD did the heads. Would help to know what he told SD as he probably picked the valve length and spring package accordingly.
Go changing that scenario from HFT to roller and vice versa might get into more money changing things around on the heads again.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

"...My intent is to match the cam to the ported heads and compression and maximize power off idle to 5000 rpm, which is where it will operate 99% of the time."

So, can you afford the $1000 or more price tag of a hydraulic roller cam set-up(depending on which lifters you buy), or do you want info about only HFT cams ? These are 2 different animals. There has been discussion here about both flat tapper & roller cams.

A Summit flat tappet cam is $73. Most major brand HFT shelf cams are $150 or less. Most HR cams are $400 or more, plus shipping. Decent HFT lifters are near $60 to less than $200. Decent HR lifters are near $400 & up. Special length pushrods are probably near $150. A polymer dist gear for use with the HR cam is $125 + shipping.

So, the guys here need to know which type cam you want.

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that the correct roller cam will out perform the best correct HFT cam. So, if you can easily afford the HR cam, then it's a no-brainer. So, if you let the guys know which you are going to buy, that will narrow the discussion, & might prevent some confusion, since some are not "comparing apples to apples", as they say. I'm not an engine builder, so I'm out of this discussion.

Good point ponyakr:

This is my first build spending the money on good pistons, rods and ported heads, so a roller cam is an option.

I am willing to spend the $$ for a roller if the average torque justifies it. Paul has actual dyno numbers for a build that is similar.

If I could compare them to someone who has an actual dyno pull for an HFT cam
that fits this combo, that would help me decide.

Thanks, Rick

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Rick Jones

Good point ponyakr:

This is my first build spending the money on good pistons, rods and ported heads, so a roller cam is an option.

I am willing to spend the $$ for a roller if the average torque justifies it. Paul has actual dyno numbers for a build that is similar.

If I could compare them to someone who has an actual dyno pull for an HFT cam
that fits this combo, that would help me decide.

Thanks, Rick

Rick,

The use of the car is the big thing. I'm building a 433 with SD iron heads and manifold for a true daily driver so I went with SDs Stump Puller. If it was a weekend car I may have gone with a nastier cam. So don't go with numbers over usage.

[pastry_chef]

The correct roller will best a flat.

I do not have duration @ .200 for the Voodoo hyd rollers.
but looking at Ultradyne I like it:

HR22
276 adv
222 @ .050
145 @ .200
0.3533

Jones hyd roller:

EHR70340
272° seat
226° @ .050
147° @ .200
.340″ lobe

[gtofreek]

I can get you duration at .200" for that Voodoo roller I put in that 413. It will have to wait till I get to work on Monday though.