[unruhjonny]

Between Shelby offerings, and the Boss Mustang from a couple of years ago - If I was to buy a car with a nearly unuseable rear seat, odds are it would be the Mustang;
Probably a 2012 Boss.
But the Challenger oozes character that the other two don't, and in addition to that, it has a useable back seat, the best visibility, and the most useable trunk.

The one I'd buy is probably an R/T Scatpack with the six speed (a cost option in Canada).

[Super Duty D]

just a bump ... we talked about this..

http://www.forums.maxperformanceinc....d.php?t=803622

SDD

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

/\ opinion.

I would be hard pressed to consider a camero;
Challenger - Oh yeah!!

Definitely. What Champ fails to understand in his "GM only" zealotry is people buy automobiles to DRIVE. No one wants a daily driver that requires a kidney belt. While my wife's '14 LT convertible is a blast to drive, it is NOT a comfortable vehicle for a long drive (over 3 hrs). Additionally, our 2 Shih-Tzus (20 lbs and 13 lbs) were uncomfortable in the back seat: No human could possibly fit back there. The Challenger is based on the same platform as the Charger and the 300. The ISP troopers I know that have been issued Hemi Chargers absolutely love the vehicle. It's fast, comfortable( ISP troopers are in their vehicles 8-12 hrs continuously) and has a decent fuel range(650 miles with the 35 gallon tank).

[unruhjonny]

the biggest two knocks that the Challenger get are;

1) extra weight
2) under powered compared to the competition*

* = I normally see the R/T (5.7L) in head to heead against the Mustang GT and Camaro SS, I cannot actually recall an exception.

To which I would reply;
1) It's a bigger vehicle, it fits people and luggage, ok, so it's bigger, and bigger means more weight...
2) The 'base' V8 car; R/T is lower horsepower compared against the competators; The R/T has been rated at 375hp since 2009 (I believe the number is actually under rated based on the e/t's they are capable of, but that aside).
A heavier car with less horsepower is going to get beat up by lighter higher power pony cars... if HP/weight ratios are your thing, the first step up is the SRT, then the R/T-Scatpack (formerly "SRT-Core"), then the Hellcat.

Pure numbers:
(assuming coupes with manual transmissions)
2017 Challenger R/T; 4,191 lbs; 375hp (11.18lbs/hp)
2017 Mustang GT; 3,836 lbs & 435hp (8.82lbs/hp)
2017 Camaro SS; 3,684 lbs & 455hp (8.10lbs/hp)

When you add the other Challengers into the mix, the playing fields seem to diminish;
2017 Challenger SRT; 4,286 lbs & 485hp (8.83/lbs/hp)
2017 Challenger R/T-Scatpack; 4,239 lbs & 485hp (8.74lbs/hp)
2017 Challenger SRT-HEllcat; 4,456 lbs & 707hp (6.30lbs/hp)

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by dataway

And my 17 year old bone stock motorcycle will out run it, both in the 1/4 and top speed.

Reported quarter mile time on the Demon is 9.65 seconds, what bike do you have? A stock 2001 Hayabusa would be close but I don't think it was quite that quick.. Of course it will be faster in top speed.

[72projectbird]

Challengers are by far the coolest modern muscle cars produced!

I've been eyeing the used Sublime green Hellcats locally, but I'll probably end up settling for a Sublime Green 392 Scat Pack.

[dataway]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Reported quarter mile time on the Demon is 9.65 seconds, what bike do you have? A stock 2001 Hayabusa would be close but I don't think it was quite that quick.. Of course it will be faster in top speed.

A 2000 Honda RC51. Actually, with stock gearing .... 10 seconds and change, into 9 seconds with shorter gearing. Stock gearing 165 mph top speed, shorter gearing, about 180 ...yes, faster with shorter gearing but the rev limiter had to be changed.

So yeah, not quite as fast .... but close enough for me to exaggerate. And 17 years old

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Definitely. What Champ fails to understand in his "GM only" zealotry is people buy automobiles to DRIVE. No one wants a daily driver that requires a kidney belt. While my wife's '14 LT convertible is a blast to drive, it is NOT a comfortable vehicle for a long drive (over 3 hrs). Additionally, our 2 Shih-Tzus (20 lbs and 13 lbs) were uncomfortable in the back seat: No human could possibly fit back there. The Challenger is based on the same platform as the Charger and the 300. The ISP troopers I know that have been issued Hemi Chargers absolutely love the vehicle. It's fast, comfortable( ISP troopers are in their vehicles 8-12 hrs continuously) and has a decent fuel range(650 miles with the 35 gallon tank).

You failed to understand what I was responding too when I made that post:

Sad because I consider weight critical. 4400lbs sound horrid on these back roads tucked in between the hills.

The much lighter Camaro is a significantly better car for driving hilly back roads.

At well over 2 tons - the Challenger is a land barge. Great for interstate cruising - if that's what you want.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

here:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...eview-verdict/

Title:

Does anybody even read Motor Trend anymore? Kinda a Consumer Reports
of the auto world. I think they should hire some car guys.

I don't have a dog in the hunt but I think the Challenger is the best looking of the modern muscle cars.
Maybe I should go drive one. I figured the still had the Mopar driver entertainment system. You know, turn off the stereo and listen to the dash squeak as you watch it shake all over the place.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk

[GTOnly70]

Here is my Sublime 2015 RT Plus - lowly mid-13 second "land barge". Car is a blast to drive. I like the Camaro and especially the Mustang. But regarding looks, these cars are a distant second and third place. As far as being a tenth or two slower in the 1/4, don't care. There is always the SRT8 or a Hellcat if this is a concern...

Some personal experience with Mopar reliability - my 2008 hemi Ram is in the background. Bought it new. Now 142,000 miles with ZERO problems ever. Nada, Zilch, Zed. Still plenty of tread left on the second set of tires. Just replaced the original battery a few months ago. My wife's 2014 Durango Citadel is on the same trajectory with 82k miles on the clock. My father-in-law's '13 Chrysler 300, same story.

My boss wishes his Mercedes was as unreliable...

[Murf]

Originally Posted by GTOnly70

Here is my sublime 2015 RT. Base model RT - lowly mid-13 second "land barge". Car is a blast to drive. I like the Camaro and especially the Mustang. But regarding looks, these cars are a distant second and third place. As far as being a tenth or two slower in the 1/4, don't care. If this ever becomes an issue, I'll step up the SRT8 or a hellcat...

Some personal experience with Mopar reliability - my 2008 hemi Ram is in the background. Bought it new. Now 142,000 miles with ZERO problems ever. Nada, Zilch, Zed. Still plenty of tread left on the second set of tires. Just replaced the original battery a few months ago. My wife's 2014 Durango Citadel is on the same trajectory with 82k miles on the clock. My father-in-law's '13 Chrysler 300, same story.

My boss wishes his Mercedes was as unreliable...

Nice car! How is the interior as far as materials & build quality? Like I said, I need to go look at one.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by Murf

Nice car! How is the interior as far as materials & build quality? Like I said, I need to go look at one.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk

This is the Plus model with the leather interior. It is excellent in all respects, I've added a pic. Plus it's nice to have a functional backseat and actually be able to see out of the car.!

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by Murf

Nice car! How is the interior as far as materials & build quality? Like I said, I need to go look at one.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk

The fit and finish of my '15 Charger R/T is superb. VERY comfortable car to ride in. Challengers have basically the same interior.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by The Champ

You failed to understand what I was responding too when I made that post:



The much lighter Camaro is a significantly better car for driving hilly back roads.

At well over 2 tons - the Challenger is a land barge. Great for interstate cruising - if that's what you want.

No, I had complete understanding: You are a GM zealot. No other domestic manufacturer has anything of merit in your opinion. You DO realize your "truth" is nothing more than your OPINION....I've driven my wife's Camaro thousands of miles. Yes, it IS fun to drive, but after about 3 hrs you will kill to get out of it! The Challenger owners I know absolutely LOVE their vehicles. If you want to "carve up" curvy roads, by all means build a road racer. I'll be the one laughing when you have a difficult time walking after you drive it.... BTW...it's "to"not "too".

[unruhjonny]

/\ truth

[Bob Rutledge]

Originally Posted by The Champ

You failed to understand what I was responding too when I made that post:



The much lighter Camaro is a significantly better car for driving hilly back roads.

At well over 2 tons - the Challenger is a land barge. Great for interstate cruising - if that's what you want.

The thing is you don't understand what you responded to.

"I still get a chuckle how Chevy says the new camaro is smaller and lighter than the last one - yea, technically it is, by the size and weight of a squirrel."

What he said is, Chevy says the Camaro is smaller and lighter than the last one, meaning the last Camaro, yea, technically it is, by the size and weight of a squirrel. He didn't compare the size and weight of the Camaro to the Challenger.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Good one, Bob!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

No, I had complete understanding: You are a GM zealot. No other domestic manufacturer has anything of merit in your opinion. You DO realize your "truth" is nothing more than your OPINION....I've driven my wife's Camaro thousands of miles. Yes, it IS fun to drive, but after about 3 hrs you will kill to get out of it! The Challenger owners I know absolutely LOVE their vehicles. If you want to "carve up" curvy roads, by all means build a road racer. I'll be the one laughing when you have a difficult time walking after you drive it.... BTW...it's "to"not "too".

And once again, you take a conversation about apples and change the topic to oranges in a weak attempt to sound smart.

I responded to a poster that was talking about driving on hilly backroads.

You admit that the Camaro is fun to drive and then talk about drives of over 3 hours.. What does that have to do with having fun driving on hilly backroads?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Bob Rutledge

The thing is you don't understand what you responded to.

"I still get a chuckle how Chevy says the new camaro is smaller and lighter than the last one - yea, technically it is, by the size and weight of a squirrel."

What he said is, Chevy says the Camaro is smaller and lighter than the last one, meaning the last Camaro, yea, technically it is, by the size and weight of a squirrel. He didn't compare the size and weight of the Camaro to the Challenger.

Bob

I think you don't understand what I was responding to...

Did you miss my original response to the quote you reference above? You must have, as your comments make no sense otherwise.

You must have some heavy squirrels in your area.

The 2015 6.2L V8, manual trans Camaro weighed 3908 pounds (500 pounds lighter than the Dodge) and the new 6.2L, manual trans Camaro is 223 pounds lighter. That's not a 1,000 pounds lighter than the Dodge - but it is over 700 pounds lighter...

Running through the hills in a new Camaro will be much more enjoyable than the bloated beluga Challenger...

So I specifically responded to the point with factual material. The new Camaro is significantly lighter than the previous version.

And this is the original point of the same poster I was addressing in the post of mine that you responded to:

Sad because I consider weight critical. 4400lbs sound horrid on these back roads tucked in between the hills.

As noted in my post I reference above - the Camaro is 700 pounds lighter than the Challenger and is a much better vehicle for a style of driving that the poster is interested in.

Have a great day, Bob!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Definitely. What Champ fails to understand in his "GM only" zealotry is people buy automobiles to DRIVE. No one wants a daily driver that requires a kidney belt. While my wife's '14 LT convertible is a blast to drive, it is NOT a comfortable vehicle for a long drive (over 3 hrs). Additionally, our 2 Shih-Tzus (20 lbs and 13 lbs) were uncomfortable in the back seat: No human could possibly fit back there. The Challenger is based on the same platform as the Charger and the 300. The ISP troopers I know that have been issued Hemi Chargers absolutely love the vehicle. It's fast, comfortable( ISP troopers are in their vehicles 8-12 hrs continuously) and has a decent fuel range(650 miles with the 35 gallon tank).

To further address this apples and oranges thing....

You openly admit that YOUR Camaro is a blast to drive - which is the basic point I was making about the significantly lighter Camaro on hilly backroads.

Then you start talking about long drives and more comfort afforded by the heavier Challenger. I never claimed that the Camaro was an interstate cruising machine.

To further confuse things, you talk about the "family" tree of the Challenger, Charger and Chrysler 300..

And you talk about how ISP troopers loving the Charger as they spend 8 - 12 hours in the car. Not sure what that really has to do with anything - troopers wear protective vests, specialized tactical gear belts and need room for computer, radar and other equipment. Their needs in a vehicle are not the same as a car enthusiasts.

Also, you need to look at the previous pursuit vehicle used by most of those troopers - most likely an underpowered land yacht called the Ford Crown Vic.

I would expect that they would love the Charger in comparison to that.

But what does that have to do with having fun driving a car?

Also, using the automobile family tree discussion you started - my Cadillac ATS is on the same chassis as the new Camaro. Last month, while still on disability from my recent cancer related surgery, I drove over 300 miles (one way) to my family reunion.

I made the trip easily and without a kidney belt. If I could do that after spending 8 hours on the operating table - in the same chassis that you claim is so hard on your body - maybe it's just your body that has the problem....