[38932]

In the process of building a stock appearing 400 with 48 heads for my '69 GTO. Heads have been gasket matched and cleaned up, steel factory intake with Quadrajet using Cliff's #2 recipe. Compression will be 9.5 using dished pistons and HO exhuast. 4 speed with 3.23 weekend driver.

I want more cam than the 068 and considering a Summit 2802. I know this subject has been beat to death but what would be the best cam choice other than the 2802 for this set up?

[Verdoro 68]

I have a similar setup to you, except I have an auto with 3.55s. I ran a Crower 60916 for a number or years but I was never really happy with it. At the end of the day I don't think my combo was really well matched for that cam.

I went looking for something with better lower end and the Lunati Voodoo 10510702 came recommended. I'm in the middle of installing one right now so I can't comment on how it compares, but it might be another option for you.

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .468/.489
LSA/ICL: 112/108
RPM Range: 1300-5500

[jonathonar89]

I'm running that Lunati cam with 3.23 in my '79 tran am. It's definitely not a disappointing setup. Just purchased a kit from Cliff.

[gtofreek]

I would certainly recommend a VooDoo cam also. I would go with the next one up. #10510703. It has 227/233 @ .050 and will be perfect for the 4 speed and 3.23 gears.
Here's a link to it. Notice the broad power band. 1600-5800 RPM.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1776&gid=287

[Verdoro 68]

I was tempted to go with the '703, but I wussed out and went with the '702.

[steve25]

Your far better off in view of your cars rear gearing to bowl port your heads for greater power instead of stuffing in a larger cam.
installing 1.65 rockers will gain you 4 degrees more over the nose duration for greater power with no change in idle factors, not to mention the rockers added lift which will add 10 CFM worth of flow on both ends of the head.
The 068 cam will let you run the 1.65 rockers with the stock valve spring installed height,that being said be sure either way you go to replace your valve springs and to have the valve guides cut for positive seals.

[zeebo]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

I was tempted to go with the '703, but I wussed out and went with the '702.

looking forward to hearing your reviews on this cam, as im seriously considering it for my 400 build--thanks gtofreek!!!!

[David Jones]

I had a 220/224 Comp hyd roller in my 400 with mildy ported 48 heads. Mine was a t400 with 3.55 gears. It would do a low 13 quarter @ 106mph on old Radial T/A's.

[Cliff R]

Just a note on this topic. IF you are going to run dished pistons in the 400 engines, then the larger camshafts on wider LSA's aren't going to be the best choice. Switching to a cam with less seat timing, and less overlap will pull the power down and make the engine a lot more responsive in the "normal" driving range. In other words it's going to "feel" snappier, and pull harder down where the engine spends most of it's time. The larger cams on wider LSA's are going to "feel" flat, soggy, etc until you get the rpm's up some. Higher compression corrects that issue about the same way installing a shorter seat timing cam does.

I would also note here that you MUST degree the Crower cams for best results. They typically come in around 112-113ICL dot to dot. I can't remember installing one yet that didn't need at least 4 degrees advance to get it down to 108-109ICL.......Cliff

[38932]

I knew the dished pistons would create some needed adjustment over an off he shelf cam.

Cliff, Which Crower Cam would you recommend and what ICL would you shoot for?

[67drake]

My original 71' 400 is at 9.6:1 CR. Original Q-jet,stock intake,cleaned up 96 heads,2 1/2" RARE manifolds,Original points dizzy,M-20,3.90's,but I had the original 3.23's in when I put my cam in.
I went with the Crower 60242(similar to the 916),and I think it runs great.
Track times in my sig. If I was not granny shifting the original M-20,the ET would be a lot lower.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by 38932

I knew the dished pistons would create some needed adjustment over an off he shelf cam.

Cliff, Which Crower Cam would you recommend and what ICL would you shoot for?

Compression is compression. Just because you use a piston with a small dish doesn't mean you need a custom cam. You stated you were going to be at 9.5:1. Whether you get there with a larger combustion chamber or a dished piston, the cam really doesn't care. The VooDoo cams have the manners of a cam 5°-10° smaller @ .050", but perform like a cam 5°-10° bigger. I love 'em, and Pontiac's love 'em too. I have not been disappointed with one yet.

I don't use many Crower cams, but people seem to like them also.

[Cliff R]

Compression dictates cam choice. For every full point of compression increase it takes about 10 degrees more camshaft to compensate. It's just a rule of thumb I use here when building these engines.

If you find a cam that works well in all areas in a 400 build at 9.5 to 1 compression, it could and most likely will NOT be the best choice at 10 to 10.5 to 1 compression.

In other words, and for example, a Crower 60243 camshaft is a "home run" in a 400 build with 10 to 1 or a tad higher compression. It will idle nicely, smooth off idle, and strong power clear across the loaded rpm range. IF you drop the static compression ratio back to 9 to 9.5 to 1, it will NOT idle nearly as well, and not work nearly as well in the low rpm range where the engine spends most of it's time.

A cam with about 10 degrees less seat timing would work a lot better.

I can't comment on the VooDoo cams, haven't used one, or seen any dyno and or track numbers on one as of yet, at least not in any application that I could use for comparison.

Folks know full well on this Forum that I am NOT a big fan of the Comp XE grinds for a variety of reasons. With that said, I wouldn't be the first bit afraid of the VooDoo cams. Even though they are fast ramp, shorter seat timing, etc, I'm certain they do not use ultra-quick seating velocities which get the Comp XE cams quickly into trouble in actual use. That's just a hunch on my part, knowing the folks who were involved with designing them.....Cliff

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by zeebo

looking forward to hearing your reviews on this cam, as im seriously considering it for my 400 build--thanks gtofreek!!!!

To follow up, I finally got the Lunati installed. I'm still tweaking the tuning, but so far I love it. It's a completely different car under 2500, much more responsive and pleasurable to drive around town. I haven't really beat on it yet, but the top end feels pretty much the same to me. If I'm giving anything up, I can't tell. So far I'm pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Paul!

[screamingchief]

I've always liked the UD 280/288 hydraulic cam for 400 combos like that,friend has one in his '77 SJ/GP w/a 400 cid engine w/a 3000 stall & 3.90 gears and eveytime we go out cruising in that car it never fails to impress me how responsive/strong that motor is in a heavy ol' car like that.

Usually it's ground on a 110°/104° but one could get it custom ground on any LSA/ICL they might want,and they can get it thru either Bullet cams -or- Lunati cams,as both cam co.s have a set of the original UD master lobes.

Lunati's "catalog" version is #10510313 (307A3).

Catolg Description:

2500 - 6000 RPM Range
Excellent for street performance. Needs
2500-3000 RPM stall converter, headers,
9:1 compression, 3.73+ gearing. Lopey idle.

And I personally dont feel the 3.23 gears will be a deal breaker here either...

HTH

Bret P.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

To follow up, I finally got the Lunati installed. I'm still tweaking the tuning, but so far I love it. It's a completely different car under 2500, much more responsive and pleasurable to drive around town. I haven't really beat on it yet, but the top end feels pretty much the same to me. If I'm giving anything up, I can't tell. So far I'm pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Paul!

Glad to hear it's running and you like it! Now go burn some tires!