[GTOWAGON]

I was a POCI member years ago all I remember was that it was more about food than cars every event had some food connection that was more important than the cars. Like having a show at a restaurant that only has parking for 20 cars but that was ok because they served good food

[The Champ]

I was a member for a number of years in the mid 90's to the early 2000's. I attended the '96 POCI meet in Moline IL and the 2001 meet at Treasure Island in MN.

Sometime after the 2001 meet I didn't renew.

Why?

As mentioned already - the magazine had little of interest in it.

If POCI had created a website/forum like this - it would have been of great interest.

[fiedlerh]

• I joined in 1978 and let it lapse around 2005 or so.
• Been to a few conventions: Gettysburg, Buffalo, Springfield IL, Bloomington MN, Dayton OH, Quad Cities IL, Grand Rapids MI, St Louis MO, St. Charles IL, maybe a few others
  Some random thoughts.
• At first it was run by young enthusiastic guys. Many of those same guys still seem to run it, but now they are part of the lawn chair crowd. I'm not far behind.
• It was probably the first magazine dedicated to the Pontiac hobby.
• Pre-Internet, I couldn't wait to get my Smoke Signals. It was a valuable publication for information and above all, ads.
• I tried a few local chapter meetings, but mostly got ignored by the "in crowd", so I quit going. The Badger chapter folks were pretty friendly though.
• Always had a blast at the annual conventions. Many memorable road trips, people, and seminars.
• It was always about older restored cars, so they ignored drag racing and newer models for years.
• Our local cruise nights attract more cars than the St. Louis convention did. Good memories of chatting with John Sawruk though.
• The internet made much of the information and ads available for free.
• Slickly produced magazines like PE and HPP were light years ahead of Smoke Signals.
• Smoke Signals turned into a 5 minute magazine.
• The website was badly outdated with a dead forum.
• AFAIK, people won't pay money to see a car website. Larry Kummer, the guy who used to print Smoke Signals, tried to start a pay-to-see Pontiac website. I think it is history, as people won't pay to get information they can find for free.
• I believe they struggled for years to get membership above 10,000. I believe adding GMC was one to be one of the answers.
• Much of what POCI did or does is now available for free on the Internet or via $20/yr HPP.
• The conventions are unique, but I don't need to be a member to see the cars or the swap meet.
• What is POCI's value proposition these days? 10,000 members wont support a slick magazine with paid authors. The convention competes with other shows open to the general public. I wish I had an answer.

[Engine-Ear]

This is an interesting thread. I, too, have thrown my hat into the ring as a Board of Directors member. I joined POCI when I was 18 and have been a member ever since. I agree with many of the gripes cited above...

Whether POCI members or not, I feel a kinship to "Pontiac people".

Man, there is a pot full of ingredients in my head that has just been put on the burner, so I won't have much to add until the stew is ready. Meanwhile, let's hear (well, READ) it.

But two important thoughts come to mind:

1) Please continue to share candid and (hopefully) constructive feedback to this thread.
2) Please do NOT take offense to what is shared here (officers, writers, editors - past or present). This thread may well serve as a priceless soul-searching opportunity for the POCI.

[2manyponchos]

When are the director applications due and who do we send them to? Probably written in SS if I would have had the chance to read any of them in the last 6 months. -Doug

[stevep]

Larry Kummer started Pontiacregistry.com and it is still up and running.

[Txbobcat]

I still belong to Poci but not the local club anymore. Their website sucks really bad. Closing it down would be an improvement. Adding GM trucks hurt POCI. Very few believe the vote was honest. No one I talked to wanted GMC but once the votes were tallied we got them. Early on my membership lapsed as I was not paying attention to the label which had my expiration date on it. At least that is what I was told. There was no notice back then. I wanted to renew but was told I could not have my old number back or the member since was changed to that date. I almost told them to stick it when I found that out.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

When are the director applications due and who do we send them to? Probably written in SS if I would have had the chance to read any of them in the last 6 months. -Doug

Here is what was sent to me on November 7 AFTER I submitted a form application in AUGUST containing all of the information requested again here:

If you are interested in being considered for the ballot please complete the following questions. The deadline for responding with the answers to these questions is November 15, 2013.

If you are selected by the committe (Mike Darr, Jack Anderson and myself) you will need to provide us with the write-up of what you wish to have printed in the Smoke Signals about your candidacy and a "mud shot", something similar to a passport photo) no later than November 30, 2013.

Then there was a list of 8 questions to be answered in "resume format". Last time I reviewed 200+ resumes there were a whole lotta formats there, so I was not exactly clear on that. I was approached by members of the administration in the summer and submitted my application according to their instructions.

My experience has lead me to the conclusion that there is way too much focus on the process and not enough communication within or focus on the actual purpose which is the cars and the people. There may be too many people involved in the administration? While I clearly understand the need for some uniformity, putting a truck load of formality in a CAR CLUB is not the way to go. I MIGHT be a little paranoid, but I would say that sending me a request to re-apply a week before the thing is due after I submitted my application that long ago might just be a little political stonewalling. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Combine that with the ambiguous definition of the format and the fact that the board them limits it down to only 2 selections for each region to be on the ballot, and you have a set-up which could significantly limit the membership's ability to have access to and choose the people they want to run the organization and its shape going forward.

Unlike others, I am not going to keep my experiences and opinions close to the vest. This is what has lead to the current situation.

[Andre]

Here is another story- We started up a GTO club in Palm Beach County in 1993, and grew it to about 140 members. When we first started we were a GTOAA chapter. The club was not limited to GTO's as we had all types of Pontiacs. After a while it was clear that the GTOAA was not doing anything for us except forcing membership compliance so we dropped that affiliation. We voted to try and become a POCI club.

We went thru the paperwork, and got to the final stages which required the closest chapters to give their blessing. The Florida chapter (West coast of florida) was fairly defunct at that time, and gave their okay. The Hurricane chapter which was 70 miles to the south was not that accomodating. When I asked POCI why they would say no, I was told (incorrectly or not) that they were afraid we would "steal" members.

Fast forward to 2013. We are still here, though not anywhere near 140 strong, but closer to 1/3 of that, as for the other 2 clubs, I don't know if they exist in any form.

I'm sure our club was not the first one to be subject to this, so who knows how many other clubs across the country this might have happened to.

[65WJ]

Originally Posted by Andre

Here is another story- We started up a GTO club in Palm Beach County in 1993, and grew it to about 140 members. When we first started we were a GTOAA chapter. The club was not limited to GTO's as we had all types of Pontiacs. After a while it was clear that the GTOAA was not doing anything for us except forcing membership compliance so we dropped that affiliation. We voted to try and become a POCI club.

We went thru the paperwork, and got to the final stages which required the closest chapters to give their blessing. The Florida chapter (West coast of florida) was fairly defunct at that time, and gave their okay. The Hurricane chapter which was 70 miles to the south was not that accomodating. When I asked POCI why they would say no, I was told (incorrectly or not) that they were afraid we would "steal" members.

Fast forward to 2013. We are still here, though not anywhere near 140 strong, but closer to 1/3 of that, as for the other 2 clubs, I don't know if they exist in any form.

I'm sure our club was not the first one to be subject to this, so who knows how many other clubs across the country this might have happened to.

imo a lot of truth here. Other clubs scared of stealing members Fear of the unknown. Have vision to grown. IMO brace the newbie they started for a reason. Reason being old club old way = death.. Get together once a year for all the clubs. share info grow together. well anyway that will probalby never happen.

patrick

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by 65WJ

imo a lot of truth here. Other clubs scared of stealing members Fear of the unknown. Have vision to grown. IMO brace the newbie they started for a reason. Reason being old club old way = death.. Get together once a year for all the clubs. share info grow together. well anyway that will probalby never happen.

patrick

Quite possibly that is what is happening to POCI. Those perceivably "in charge" want to protect their position and in their personal and comfortable interest will let the POCI die as long as their agenda serves themselves. Might be a prime opportunity for an entirely new club or organization.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

Quite possibly that is what is happening to POCI. Those perceivably "in charge" want to protect their position and in their personal and comfortable interest will let the POCI die as long as their agenda serves themselves. Might be a prime opportunity for an entirely new club or organization.

The new President does not operate like that. He wants to make things right. It is not all self-serving as some his predecessors were. He just wants to do what is best for the membership.

[lfdsteve]

Originally Posted by Old Goat Racer

So what will happen to all the cars?

Most got sucked up into collections by collectors that bid with their egos instead of common sense. Priced most common folk right outa the hobby
Steve

[Sidponcho]

This reply does not refer to POCI directly. This type of organization in general just isn't for me. I enjoy my old car(s) and enjoy spending time with my car-guy friends going to swap meets, generic car shows and cruise nights. I do appreciate these club's efforts to "preserve classic Pontiacs". I just choose to do so by keeping my cars and buying parts from the specialty suppliers i.e. PY. Some might say that's not enough, but its a free country (theoretically)

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by stevep

The new President does not operate like that. He wants to make things right. It is not all self-serving as some his predecessors were. He just wants to do what is best for the membership.

With all respect to POCI, I hear this all the time. I heard this when Dave Bennett was president too.

I was not around for what seems to be a tough time in POCI leadership. So I cant comment on that. But I have to say that it must have been really tough because each leader wants to change the the old ways. Looks like it left a big scar.

[65WJ]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

With all respect to POCI, I hear this all the time. I heard this when Dave Bennett was president too.

I was not around for what seems to be a tough time in POCI leadership. So I cant comment on that. But I have to say that it must have been really tough because each leader wants to change the the old ways. Looks like it left a big scar.

I like what SteveP is saying but how does new pres. visit each and every local club to change the status quo? Once a year at the National convention? People will do what they want to do regardless. Human nature. imo Hope I am wrong and local clubs get togther and grow. Need the Bonnvelle SSEi and GP xp and Grand Am's
Maybe not the AZTEC. LOL
patrick

[stevep]

The new president is just trying to do the right thing. Things are changing for the better, but it is no easy task. His contact info is posted, so contact him. I'm sure that he will appreciate it. He is a gentleman and he used to fly C5's!

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

Paul sends out reminders, in fact he's GREAT at it and I havea rough time believing that he would smart off to a member.

Mike

i can assure you that had they never failed to send a reminder I would still be a member. as to who I talked to, I don't remember tim dye gave me a number to call and that guy gave me another number.

[Ben M.]

My membership lapsed despite seeing things improve after the fiasco that was GMC being included and the rest of us told to stuff it because "the majority of the club approved of it." I guess car clubs just aren't for me. My cars aren't "cool" or "pretty enough" to be remotely included or liked. Most of the people in the local clubs I went to were older than my dad - not that there is anything wrong with that, but when the older members constantly complain about young kids "not getting it" or doing something stereotypically lazy or stupid, it makes it hard to want to spend time with them. There were some really great members who were really nice, but at the same time considerably more just flat out snubbed their nose at what I drove not being a '65-70 GTO or that I was 24 or 25 and therefore more interested in video games or partying all night.

I wish the club well and hold no ill will towards any of them, but they just don't have anything to offer me. I get what I need Pontiac-wise from this forum and a few local resources who don't have much use for clubs either.

[keith k]

I've been a member since '85.

I'm not the type to get real involved w/ clubs, though. I mostly joined for the magazine, classifieds, and to keep up on upcoming events which I might occasionally attend (and for what it's worth, I do the same with a couple of other automobile brands I'm a fan/owner of).

I also continue to pay the annual dues just because I feel like I'm supporting the hobby in some small way. And even though the Smoke Signals magazine can be read pretty quickly, I still enjoy it, and I don't really expect it to be much more than it is.

Since I don't get too involved in the club, regular meetings, etc., I can't say I've perceived any politics going on, at least at the National level. I don't belong to either of the two local chapters that are near me.

I agree the inclusion of GMC into POCI bugged me - just no overlap between the two enthusiast groups so it seemed contrived to maintain some financial support for GM. But I also don't feel like the GMC thing has taken anything away from the Pontiac side, either -- not many GMCs taking up space in the Smoke Signals or at the convention.

The POCI website is a place I haven't checked out in probably 7 - 10 years, and I found it a bit cumbersome when I did. It would be hard to turn the tide around on that, I think. Once you've established a habit (as in visiting PY regularly), it would take something dramatically better to prompt a switch.

I've attended several conventions: mid 80s in Greensboro, early 90s in Gaithersburg (I think, or somewhere near there), 2000 in Grand Rapids, and the two co-ventions in Dayton. I generally only come for the show on Saturday. I just don't have the time (or frankly even the interest) to turn it into a 5-day thing. The format of the Ames/Norwalk event is much more appealing to me: 2-3 days, racing included, and I generally feel like I see pretty much 90% of it just by attending on Saturday.