[Scarebird]

I was talking to a gentleman today who wanted to put 8-lugs on his 64 GTO. To my knowledge Roush has hung up the idea of their 8 lug disc. I thought of this today:



It would be a simple flat adapter disc, made from 1/2" or so 6061 aluminum that would tie in the 15" and 16" 8 lug aftermarket rims to the standard 5 lug drums or disc. Polished, it would have a ring riveted in to retain the repop Lemans/GTO dog dish hubcap...

pic stolen from ebay/pure poncho

yays? nays? gtfo's? This should easily clear disc or drums.

[62 bv]

i like it

[Deadhead]

Wait - so Rousch is no longer doing the disc 8 lug set-up?

On the budget thing, This would use a BOP 15" 8 lug wheel? Feel like I am missing something.

IMO it might be OK but would look like a cheap imitation. No doubt braking would improve, but it is not a substitute for the deep Alum Fins. Might look OK on the road, but in the parking lot is not going to have the same appeal.

[pfilean]

Not sure the flat aluminum would have enough strength to resist side loads on turns. But then I'm a sceptic and wouldn't trust a lot of the wheels I see people using. I think there is supposed to be some testing done to meet DOT or manufacturers association standards and I see a lot of Chinese specials I don't think would meet the standards. But good luck. I suspect there could be some interest in getting something available.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by pfilean

Not sure the flat aluminum would have enough strength to resist side loads on turns. But then I'm a sceptic and wouldn't trust a lot of the wheels I see people using. I think there is supposed to be some testing done to meet DOT or manufacturers association standards and I see a lot of Chinese specials I don't think would meet the standards. But good luck. I suspect there could be some interest in getting something available.

That has been my thought all along, but got poo-pooed. I am no metalurgist, but those holes in that thin Alum. would make me uncomfortable cornering.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Wait - so Rousch is no longer doing the disc 8 lug set-up?

We should verify this. I noticed the other day it was no longer on their website - but I do know they have at least one set on the road (on Mike M's '64 Catalina).

K

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

We should verify this. I noticed the other day it was no longer on their website - but I do know they have at least one set on the road (on Mike M's '64 Catalina).

K

Yeah, I thought someone else here had bought a set or had ordered. That is why I was interested. Would not personally feel comfortable with it unless I had seen other owners who had tested is why I was following it.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by pfilean

Not sure the flat aluminum would have enough strength to resist side loads on turns. But then I'm a sceptic and wouldn't trust a lot of the wheels I see people using. I think there is supposed to be some testing done to meet DOT or manufacturers association standards and I see a lot of Chinese specials I don't think would meet the standards. But good luck. I suspect there could be some interest in getting something available.

"not sure" "I think" "I suspect"...

Perhaps you should have some facts first before commenting? My 30 year old Centerline Autodrags have the same 1/2" thick core between riveted spun halves and to my knowledge this design never had any structural failures. Also, note that many rims sold here are designated "off-road use only", a simple dodge to evade DOT scrutiny. Overseas, ie. Euro Union, AUS, etc this won't fly - they take this stuff seriously.

[Heybuck]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Wait - so Rousch is no longer doing the disc 8 lug set-up?

I had a mad idea about going down this road. I rang Rousch a few months back and after some small difficulty getting someone on the line who actually had the facts, he told me they were needing more development and I should check back with them in about 6 months. I can't remember the name of the guy I spoke to??

From the brief conversation I had, I got the impression they were probably finding it all too hard for the anticipated sales volume to warrant the efforts.

Ian

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

to my knowledge this design never had any structural failures..

Not trying to be a jerk, but this is pretty much the same. Until one or one's attorney does a thorough search in the CCH Product Liability Reporter or similar court reporting service, they will not get the full story on product history.

My take is that until governing body approval or a multitude of users' data verifies the safety of the product, our suspicions on the strength of this product are still legit. That is just my own personal take on safety, but in this case I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with healthy skepticism. A shelving of the product would only add to that skepticism. Again, not trying to pick a fight, but at high speed in a turn with a 5000# car you can not be to careful.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Not trying to be a jerk, but this is pretty much the same. Until one or one's attorney does a thorough search in the CCH Product Liability Reporter or similar court reporting service, they will not get the full story on product history.

My take is that until governing body approval or a multitude of users' data verifies the safety of the product, our suspicions on the strength of this product are still legit. That is just my own personal take on safety, but in this case I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with healthy skepticism. A shelving of the product would only add to that skepticism. Again, not trying to pick a fight, but at high speed in a turn with a 5000# car you can not be to careful.

My point is skepticism needs to be backed up by fact, not just idle guessing. I can dust off my engineering handbook and do a bending moment calc, but this post was simply to see if there was any interest in this idea - seem like the guy who would know would be Wade Congdon.

Also, the most stress in a suspension laterally would be low speed turns (ie. parking lot) with sticky tires.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

My point is skepticism needs to be backed up by fact, not just idle guessing. I can dust off my engineering handbook and do a bending moment calc,

Here at GM, regardless of the math, tires and/or wheels are subjected to a full battery of bench tests before being allowed on a vehicle. Then a full durability schedule at the Proving Ground before being allowed off property.

Originally Posted by Scarebird

My point is skepticism needs to be backed up by fact...
Also, the most stress in a suspension laterally would be low speed turns (ie. parking lot) with sticky tires.

Intuitively, this does not seem right to me. What are you basing that on?

Had to replace one set of Bogart wheels on this car: cracking in the spider section. They replaced them for free.



Not sure how the thickness of aluminum here compares to what you have in mind.

K

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

I had a mad idea about going down this road. I rang Rousch a few months back and after some small difficulty getting someone on the line who actually had the facts, he told me they were needing more development and I should check back with them in about 6 months. I can't remember the name of the guy I spoke to??

From the brief conversation I had, I got the impression they were probably finding it all too hard for the anticipated sales volume to warrant the efforts.

Ian

Yeah, I can't imagine this to be economical feasible for a profit making/seeking enterprise, and especially given that with John's help, one can make an 8 lug system work really well.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

We should verify this. I noticed the other day it was no longer on their website - but I do know they have at least one set on the road (on Mike M's '64 Catalina).

K

Dave Bennett also had a set on his '61 Ventura. Interestingly, I just checked back and in one of his last posts before he died (at the end of December 2011) he mentioned that Roush was working on a kit for rear disc brakes - don't know if anything ever came of that.

[LASJayhawk]

My understanding is Rousch was using Arrowheads drums to make the setup

If ponchopio isn't making more drums, that may have put a crimp in the plans.

[61-63]

Your original question sought opinions as to whether or not doing this was a good idea and my answer would be no. Your idea does not include the finned drums which is as much a part of the 8 lug beauty, if not more, than the rims. IMO you might sell one or two, or very few, sets of these but would never recoup your investment. I would think that creating some sort of hub adapter that would allow current 8 lug drums to be bolted onto GTO rear axles and front spindles would be a much more desirable thing to do but IMO that would not be a wise investment either since GTOs never had 8 lugs as an option from the factory. So again you might sell a few sets of this too but not enough to recoup your investment. JMO.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Intuitively, this does not seem right to me. What are you basing that on?

Not sure how the thickness of aluminum here compares to what you have in mind.

K

Keith, I am going on with what a GM engineer told me at SEMA concerning the "wonderbar" installation on later 3rd Gen F bodies. They bolted in a bracket tying in the two "frame" horns ahead of the idler and steering box mounts. With the newer sticky tires in larger sizes guys were tearing out the steering boxes in parking lots and autocrossing. On my personal 83 Camaro I simply welded in a bar even though the tires were stock sized 205-14's just for the additional rigidity.

As far as the wheel center goes this will have much more sectional area: star vs. disc.

Originally Posted by 61-63

Your original question sought opinions as to whether or not doing this was a good idea and my answer would be no...

...So again you might sell a few sets of this too but not enough to recoup your investment. JMO.

I was thinking the same thing, but with the automotive market you never know... I have the material from another project (sunken costs).

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by 61-63

Your original question sought opinions as to whether or not doing this was a good idea and my answer would be no. Your idea does not include the finned drums which is as much a part of the 8 lug beauty, if not more, than the rims. IMO you might sell one or two, or very few, sets of these but would never recoup your investment. I would think that creating some sort of hub adapter that would allow current 8 lug drums to be bolted onto GTO rear axles and front spindles would be a much more desirable thing to do but IMO that would not be a wise investment either since GTOs never had 8 lugs as an option from the factory. So again you might sell a few sets of this too but not enough to recoup your investment. JMO.

We can do that too - simple bolt pattern and pilot hole change...

[66 Wagon]

My humble opinion on this matter is that I hope we'll never see 8 lugs for GTO/Le Mans/Tempest.
The 8 lugs belongs to the big Pontiacs.

If someone would make them for GTOs we'll soon enough will see them on
other cars than Pontiacs. Imagine Impalas, Chevelles and hotrods with 8 lugs.
Hey, we might even see Mustangs and Mopars with a set of 8 lugs, and we don't want that, do we? You won't put Magnum 500s on a Pontiac, even if it's a nice wheel, do you?

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by 66 Wagon

My humble opinion on this matter is that I hope we'll never see 8 lugs for GTO/Le Mans/Tempest.
The 8 lugs belongs to the big Pontiacs.

If someone would make them for GTOs we'll soon enough will see them on
other cars than Pontiacs. Imagine Impalas, Chevelles and hotrods with 8 lugs.
Hey, we might even see Mustangs and Mopars with a set of 8 lugs, and we don't want that, do we? You won't put Magnum 500s on a Pontiac, even if it's a nice wheel, do you?

Honestly I'd run Magnums on a GM. THey already have, ever seen a Buick rally? Or a Painted Chevelle SS Wheel?

I'd also be the first to run a set of 8 lugs on my Grand Prix.