[Doug1]

Just thought some might want to see these. I have the raw matching valve covers set on my 455 block just for pics. Shows just how big they are! The guy who is working with me on my street build is putting these on his race car. These have to be ported at a cost of about $2200 before use. They are 18 degree heads. The valve covers will be polished and powder coated with black letters and a red arrow.









[INDENT]

[Brian Baker]

Why would anyone be interested in a pair of BBC heads in the "Pontiac - Race" section?

[fastgto]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Why would anyone be interested in a pair of BBC heads in the "Pontiac - Race" section?

Always starting trouble........... LOL

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by fastgto

Always starting trouble........... LOL

I mean, who really gives a s**t? This is the Pontiac race section. Now if they were attached to a certain "Tameless" Chevelle with a tiger stripe paint job, that would be different.

Oh well, it's been moved....thank you!

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I mean, who really gives a s**t? This is the Pontiac race section. Now if they were attached to a certain "Tameless" Chevelle with a tiger stripe paint job, that would be different.

Oh well, it's been moved....thank you!

Anyone can be a jerk, as you just proved.

They run in this and Pontiac was the first out with those heads... Yes, the block is the GM corporate block but so what? The car is a Pontiac, the heads say Pontiac... Since Pontiac no longer has their own block, I don't see why your are whining.

[Barrier Blue]

Any more pics of your Trans Am?
What does it currently have in it?

[Polar-Pontiac]

Very nice I like those cars.

[rumair]

nice car....too bad about the boat anchor under the hood.

[BVR421]

I like chevvys too, when I want to read about them i go to a chevvy forum

[Dragncar]

Doug, you can call it a Pontiac but the real fans of Pontiacs could not care less about some BBC head. Even if it was designed by the Pontiacless PMD at the time.
I mean get with it. Us fans of the old Indian engine are the ones with all the new cool parts to chose from. The traditional Pontiac engine will not die and it is being proved right now.
More parts by far than all of the other Olds, Buicks and Caddy engines.
Pontiacs rule and a fast chevy is a fast chevy and no one around here cares much.

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Doug, you can call it a Pontiac but the real fans of Pontiacs could not care less about some BBC head. Even if it was designed by the Pontiacless PMD at the time.
I mean get with it. Us fans of the old Indian engine are the ones with all the new cool parts to chose from. The traditional Pontiac engine will not die and it is being proved right now.
More parts by far than all of the other Olds, Buicks and Caddy engines.
Pontiacs rule and a fast chevy is a fast chevy and no one around here cares much.

I have 6 different Pontiac motors and I love them. The one I am building in the pic with the valve cover on top is getting KRE d-ports 310 cfm. I have some with E-Heads and even one with cast heads. Point is that I see them all as Pontiac. You couldn't buy that car with the old motor in it but it came from a Pontiac dealership with the same sort of motor that it runs with and you can't compete out there with a stock Pontiac block from the 70s. I don't really give a crap about putting a motor in there that never came with it and then not being able to compete.

I will keep that particular car to myself from now on.

[Sirrotica]

Doug 1, Could I interest you in a T Shirt or two or maybe three?
BTW forth Gens never came with pig blocks either. And yes I do have one that has an inoperative small block in that will probably be converted to Stratostreak power if I can find the time and ever get my bum foot healed up.

[Doug1]

I'll take one of each. Heck, I am just arguing the point for the fun of it! The fact is that this is my buddy's car. All mine are pure Pontiac but I disagree with the notion that this isn't Pontiac. Is just isn't a Pontiac stuck with an old Pontiac motor in it.

For example... How are the cars most of us own pure Pontiac when we aren't running heads designed by Pontiac, BB Chevy rods and cranks with Rod journals sized to the Chevy and some of the guys with more money than me run aftermarket blocks that Pontiac never designed. In my mind, some of these motors are less Pontiac than the BB chevy block with heads designed by PMD. At least the real power comes from a PMD design.

The fact of the matter is this... If having the 60s and 70s era motor makes it a Pontiac, then in 10-15 years there won't be any real Pontiac hobby. Because the guys who are excited about it are generally guys who grew up around it and can now afford to build what they always wanted. Guys like me.

When the kids who went to high school with the late 80's TAs get into their late 30's and 40's they aren't going to be saying it ain't a Pontiac because it didn't have a 70's era motor in it. Come on, does anyone on here ever give a second thought to motors from the late 50's and early 60's. Hardly.


Again, I only own Pontiac blocks from 68-74, 6 of them and none of them use all technology designed in the 60s-70s. I work on this motor because I grew up with it, but I don't diss other's Pontiac cars because it didn't come with that a motor from one small era. Pontiac is over 50, this block was around 12-15 years of that. Not even a majority of Pontiac's life. This notion that it isn't a Pontiac after 1979 is the real bunch of bull created by a bunch of old farts who feel the need to own Pontiac's definition. All they are doing is giving the Pontiac hobby a very certain and predictable timeline to it's own death if that is the case.

[Sirrotica]

1955-1979 looks like 24 years to me and if you count the 301, 265 derivatives til 1981 which is 26 years. BTW Pontiac was born in 1926 and survived until at least this year, 83 years if you do the math. Much more time than they had to hire a cylinder head company to design better flowing chevy heads and place an arrowhead and a GM part # on them.

For your information there are plenty of Pontiac enthusiasts from the pre Stratostreak V8 era around too. My dad was who introduced me to Pontiac as I grew up was the reason I love the marque. One thing you underestimate is how loyal Pontiac people are to their brand. The proof is the privately developed speed equipment that we have is all been done by little guys that will continue to do this in the face of adversity until they draw their last breath. Proud to be called Pontiac enthusiasts and more loyal than any other brand and smart and willing to be innovative as we have had to be for many years as the factory hadn't brought us much in the way of HiPo parts for many years. Can't is not in their vocabulary as it shouldn't be. My dad always used to tell me 'Can't never got a damn thing done".

This is also evidenced at Norwalk Raceway Park as our nationals surpass every other brand in attendance. You really need to come to this event if you think we are all ready to kick the bucket. Kids and young people abound at our events and yes there are more young enthusiasts coming each year. I don't see these events being cancelled for lack of particpation in the next 10-15 years.

Also the fact that the engine has not been produced since 1981 and there is now enough aftermarket support that you can build a Pontiac Stratostreak engine design from mild to wild without having one part from GM. If the engine was dead and the people are passing who is it that has done all of this? More aftermarket eqiupment is available each year than the preceeding year. The attendance at shows and races keeps rising and more shows and races are added each year. That is pretty amazing because I don't believe any of the other brands have a following like this.

You ask why we have so many aftermarket parts instead of GM designed parts? The fact is the factory forgot about their own great design and gave up on us racers and enthusiasts years ago. If these loyalists hadn't taken up where the factory left off there would be very few Pontiac race cars if any. Our supply of good parts was never anywhere near the quantity that the other brands enjoyed and stuff got used up and old and tired and what was left was very expensive and with no factory parts coming we started to fill in the gaps with the loyalists own money and innovation and talents. We were gonna do it on our dime as the factory was never gonna help our cause.

Your opinion is yours but I think you listen too much to the chevy and other brands of people as they have perpetuated and fabricated stories about us and our cars and engines for years. Maybe they really believe if it ain't chevy, ford, chrysler it ain't worth talking about. We are years and many dollars in developement behind ford chevy and chrysler but we still keep working on catching up and a few more victories in all forms of racing keep coming our way. We get press in the other magazines that had almost no Pontiac articles for years. As is said here many times on these boards, "It's a great time to be a Pontiac enthusiast". Never underestimate the loyal and proud people who are happy to be the underdog, I count myself as one of them.

[Doug1]

You're missing my point. I probably rambled too much on that last reply.
I have spent a lot of money with SD Performance, Butler, KRE, Edlebrock, etc so I support them where it counts. I really don't listen to anybody as you can probably tell :-) LMAO And as far as the 25 years go... They have NOT made it longer than that now. They quit making that motor in 78 in all reality.

My point is simply this...There is a forum called... "PONTIAC RACING"... but they exclude everyone who has a Pontiac made after 79. (technically 81 with the 301 but nobody races that motor) Don't diss other people's pontiacs just because it didn't come with a pre 81 motor. This guy has a lot of time and money in that car and he has gone out of his way to make sure everyone can see the Pontiac logo on the heads, is having the Pontiac valve cover polished, painted, etc. He owns a PONTIAC Trans Am made over 2 decades after they quick making the blocks you and I run. I think he has a right to call his car a Pontiac with that motor in it and he is out there kicking ass with it.

I say if the car came with the block that went away in 79, then run that block but after that live and let live. Don't bust their ass as a "chevy" guy and talk sh!T about them unless you want to run the Pontiac hobby in to the ground. In reality, the money in this hobby follows the generation of folks working with the cars of their youth. Down the road that won't happen around here because "Pontiac Racing" doesn't include the guys with post 79 cars.

This place has more than it's share of guys who like to run down other's stuff. I call a spade a spade but I don't diss others who are trying to keep the Pontiac name out there any way they can.

Anyway, I find it pretty entertaining to see how closed minded some folks are. As soon as something new comes along, even within their own "rules", they trash talk it to death and don't put their money where their mouthes are. They need to define their time as "Real Pontiac" and put a fence around it to keep others out.


Bottom Line(Pun Intended) If the intention is to alienate or exclude an entire generation "30 YEARS" of Pontiac drivers, then it will work. I personall think that is a bad idea because anything keeping the Pontiac name out their kicking butt works for me.

[Barrier Blue]

Originally Posted by Barrier Blue

Any more pics of your Trans Am?

Some of us would like to see them even if a few others wouldn't.

[Doug1]

It is a friend's car. It is where I am building my latest 462 with KRE d-ports...

Anyway, send me a PM and I will email you a photobucket link. Sure as heck won't post them here! Some of these boys might mess their drawers.

[Sirrotica]

I guess you missed in my signature the 2005 GTO that I bought new. I think the car is great and I hear all kinds of crap about it, "not a real GTO", "looks like a big cavalier" "ugly" etc. I have also as I mentioned owned a 97 T/A with a small block in it and I own a 2008 Pontiac Vibe. Further back I owned a 81 Pontiac Bonneville with a 350 olds diesel in it and a 76 Sunbird with a buick 231 V6. I feel if it has an Arrowhead on it it's still a Pontiac, as can be seen from my current and past stable of cars. The difference being is I don't go to the race section on PY to talk about them. That section is pretty much reserved for Stratostreak powered cars.

There are many on here that own Pontiacs with other than Stratostreak engines in them and appreciate their cars but don't go into the race section on here to talk about them. There are other forums on here for those cars such as 2004-2006 GTO and 1982-2002 T/A and FB (that would have been the proper forum) or here where it finally ended up in the non Pontiac powered section. That car posted here or there wouldn't have even gotten any negative comments about it, or is it just your intention to stir the pot and go against what is already established here as protocol and informal rules?.....

[performerrpm]

those are some nice heads and the car is really sharp too. however i dont think your parts are gonna get much respect from very many folks on this site since we pontiac folks catch enough grief from the chevy crowd as it is without having a chevy tryin to sneek in on us disguised as a pontiac. at least you do have numerous pontiacs motors in your possession and iam sure you could save face by posting pics of those

[Doug1]

Sirrotica...
Well... The forum said "Pontiac Racing". Yeah, I knew there would be some whining but someone needs to stand up for the latest generation of Pontiac racers even if I don't own the equipment they run. I had an interesting conversation today with one of the owners of a BIG Pontiac Performance business about this very thread. His parts are on many of the cars all of us own... His point was that he encourages all Pontiac racers and not just the one's that use a motor he makes money off of. He said he felt that if the CAR was made by Pontiac he considered it a Pontiac even if someone put a completely different manufacture's motor in it.

Now that is coming from a man who makes his entire living off of this hobby. That is my kind of guy! He is a racer at heart and knows that motor parts are motor parts. Most of the engine parts on all these race cars never came from the manufacturer anyway so why all the fuss. Carrying the Pontiac banner is what it should be about.

PERFORMERRPM..
Though I don't need to "save face", I will post a couple of pics I already had and a couple I snapped in my garage tonight for you because I do like showing my work off :-).

Now this HAD to be my first since it was in my original post. LOL. Yes that valve cover doesn't go on the engine underneath but that engine is a 455 with Ross Pistons, Eagle Rods and Crank, KRE - Dports ported by SD Performance topped by a Cliff Ruggles carb.



This motor is in one of my blue 79 TA
E-heads, roller cam, RPM, forged crank, Eagle rods and Ross Pistons


You can hear it running here..


This motor goes in another 79. It is on my burn in stand and is a 400 with cast heads that were ported and a hydraulic roller


This block is a numbers matching 455 from my 76 Firethorn Red TA. I am putting the first motor at the top in it's place. This one is being shelved to keep the value of the car up.


This is a spare block just waiting on some inspiration...