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GT182 · 02-04-2008, 10:10 PM

Here's another take on having a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac. I go to a lot of cruise nights and shows here in Delaware since I got my Goat this past summer. I see a lot of Ford customs and Ford T-buckets. Guess what most have in the for engines.... yep Chevys. Now ask a dedicated Ford man what he'd have in his restored Ford and 99% of the time he'll say A FORD. To me and the other guys here, it sacrilege to put anything other than the engine that goes with the car. Ford in a Ford, Chevy in a Chevy and a Pontiac in a Pontiac.

Those that put a Chevy in a Ford only do so for one reason only.... the cost. A Chevy engine is the cheapest to build or rebuild. The Fords and Pontiacs... and yes Olds and Buicks too, are the more expensive to rebuild. Not many cater to the likes of us. Plus we're diehards that keep our cars pure to the core. And to us that core is it's engine. It might not be the original matching numbers engine but it'll be a Pontiac.

Do as you want FA80. It was your grand dad's car and I think we all respect your decision to keep the 455. I'd probably do the same if it was my grand dad's car. I'm only trying to explain where our thoughts and hearts are, and not belittle your decision. Hope you understand.

So with that... go for it and do the best you can. I for one know you will, and will make him proud. After all, he's watching over you. Just listen to what he says.

FireAm80 · 02-04-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT182

Here's another take on having a Pontiac engine in a Pontiac. I go to a lot of cruise nights and shows here in Delaware since I got my Goat this past summer. I see a lot of Ford customs and Ford T-buckets. Guess what most have in the for engines.... yep Chevys. Now ask a dedicated Ford man what he'd have in his restored Ford and 99% of the time he'll say A FORD. To me and the other guys here, it sacrilege to put anything other than the engine that goes with the car. Ford in a Ford, Chevy in a Chevy and a Pontiac in a Pontiac.

Those that put a Chevy in a Ford only do so for one reason only.... the cost. A Chevy engine is the cheapest to build or rebuild. The Fords and Pontiacs... and yes Olds and Buicks too, are the more expensive to rebuild. Not many cater to the likes of us. Plus we're diehards that keep our cars pure to the core. And to us that core is it's engine. It might not be the original matching numbers engine but it'll be a Pontiac.

Do as you want FA80. It was your grand dad's car and I think we all respect your decision to keep the 455. I'd probably do the same if it was my grand dad's car. I'm only trying to explain where our thoughts and hearts are, and not belittle your decision. Hope you understand.

So with that... go for it and do the best you can. I for one know you will, and will make him proud. After all, he's watching over you. Just listen to what he says.

If i was doing my own resto project i would agree pontiac in a pontiac etc etc... but thats how he wanted it so that how im gonna do it. I feel in the end i'll be happier knowing i did it the way he always wanted.

Tomorrow I'm goin dowtown to mobile to Mardi Gras.

Then afterwards spending the rest of the day working on the goat so i'll have some more pics up of specific issues and just everything i can possibly take a picture of! Gonna be a perfect day.

GT182 · 02-05-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireAm80

but thats how he wanted it so that how im gonna do it. I feel in the end i'll be happier knowing i did it the way he always wanted.

Good for you. And yes, you will be happier.

BTW, I wasn't trying to get you to change your mind.

Now to show you're not alone in your decision. My 389 is sick... ring job needed and a possible rebore to get the cylinders back in shape. Not that it's going to be overly expensive, but enough so that I've taken an alternative route for now. I've gotten a mix of feeling on this but in the long run with the price of premium and regular gas going ever higher, I've come to the decision to put in a 326 for the time being. I bought the 326 for 100.00. I can use everything but the heads off the 389 so that helps on cost. To a purist, and in the back of my mind, I'm going the wrong way. But in order to drive the car I've got to look to save some money on the cost of running it...Why? the

says so.

Then this summer I can save and get the 389 redone and possibly put back in next winter. Or, if I decide to sell the Goat, I can still have the matching numbers engine to go with it. The new owner would have to make a choice like I did, but he'd still have the original drive train.

I had a friend years ago that had a 66 GTO with a 326 in it and he loved the car as it was. Besides, I don't need all that horsepower just to drive it.

APFU · 02-05-2008, 11:26 PM

I'm in a similar situation, restoring my grandfather's Pontiac, and the previous shop the car was at managed to misplace/not label a bunch of bolts and other fasteners. I'm not sure if they have the same type packages for your car, but Totally Stainless has some very nice, individually labeled fastener kits for just about every section of my car. It was very nice being able to order kits from them and have a box arrive with every nut and bolt packaged and labeled as to where it went. Good Luck with the project and keep us updated.

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APFU

I'm in a similar situation, restoring my grandfather's Pontiac, and the previous shop the car was at managed to misplace/not label a bunch of bolts and other fasteners. I'm not sure if they have the same type packages for your car, but Totally Stainless has some very nice, individually labeled fastener kits for just about every section of my car. It was very nice being able to order kits from them and have a box arrive with every nut and bolt packaged and labeled as to where it went. Good Luck with the project and keep us updated.

Thanks for the tip on the fasteners. Because i havnt seen the first one yet...

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 12:56 AM

GT182 · 02-06-2008, 09:36 AM

FA80, do you know what the actual mileage is on the car? If it's low that'll be nice too.

patox · 02-06-2008, 12:02 PM

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...ss/Day2009.jpg

My dash looks right like this, I tought that it could be a lemmans dash trasplanted to my GTO, the gauges dont have the cromed ring, and it looks like it never had the woodgrain stuff in it.......

Can it be a GTO dash? what is missing?, why it looks different to the ones I have seing in pictures??

I've added a picture of mine also.

Thanks!

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patox

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...ss/Day2009.jpg

My dash looks right like this, I tought that it could be a lemmans dash trasplanted to my GTO, the gauges dont have the cromed ring, and it looks like it never had the woodgrain stuff in it.......

Can it be a GTO dash? what is missing?, why it looks different to the ones I have seing in pictures??

I've added a picture of mine also.

Thanks!

I was wondering almost the same thing. I noticed that my dash around the gauges was
black and every other pic i've seen has been woodgrain. BUT!!! I know for a fact my grandfather has had this car almost since new. Second owner

So thats a positive, and seeing as the car has been parked for so long, the time it was operational, There would have been no reason to change the dash. So believe it is. Lets see what everyone else says. Because like i said i'm by no means an expert.

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT182

FA80, do you know what the actual mileage is on the car? If it's low that'll be nice too.

I believe it is somewhere around 60,000 but im not positive. Good thing to put on my list of stuff to check out next time.

lcoz31 · 02-06-2008, 04:51 PM

I was in the same boat as you, and am finally almost finished with my 66. Perhaps you can learn from my mistakes. 1. As others said before get organized. 2. Take everything apart including interior, and save - marked in boxes and baggies. 3. Clean all parts, put aside anything that you can restore. 4. Remove paint and sand the entire body to bare metal to see what you are dealing with. 5. Treat whatever was sanded with rust inhibiter. 6. Don't cut anything out. Bring to a pro for advice and welding. Only buy what you need. At this point you can do much of the body work yourself - Car Craft Mag- to save money. I would have the final prep and paint done by a pro. Spread the cost over time, a little each month to keep the project going. Py and other suppliers have most of the bolt kits or anything else you need- get cataloges. Good luck. Larry

Tempest · 02-06-2008, 04:56 PM

Great potential, but a HUGE project. As others have said, make a list of everything you have, than make a list of everything you 'think' you need. You are going to need a welder, or learn the skill. (start on the floors before you try that quarter)

This will be a very time consuming, and money consuming project, don't rush it, take your time, and break it down into small pieces, the amount of work that is neede may overwhelm you if you don't.

As for the Olds motor, we are all fond of our Poncho Power Plants, but I understand you wanting to honour your Grandfather's wishes. If that's what will make you tha happiest, go for it, it is your car.

Remember, this is a hobby, so enjoy the process, not just the result.

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 07:39 PM

Yea, the picture with all the folgers... Thats my nuts and bolts with no labels, but they are all the automotive bolts that were there.

Everything is pretty much organized now, and i can begin stripping everything possible off of the body. Purchasing another sandblaster soon. I'm not going to blast any painted surfaces though, i'm going to do that with jitterbug/palm sander. I wouldn't want to take a chance warping any metal. Only blasting underside and floors.

FireAm80 · 02-06-2008, 10:57 PM

Ok i was just wandering if anyone here has built there own rotisserie? Thinking about this instead of just putting it on stands. Make things alot easier and keep the rust outta my eyes.

GT182 · 02-06-2008, 11:19 PM

Use baking soda as a medium to remove paint if you want, it won't warp the metal. Not sure about wallnut shells, but that too is a good blasting medium for certain parts. The plus side, besides not warping the metal, is that it's faster than sanding. Messy but faster.

Or you can use aircraft paint stripper. That stuff works great but be very carefull and lay down plastic sheeting to catch everything. Again, faster than sanding. Myself, I'd do the sanding to find the high and low imperfections in the body. Then etch the metal before you prime it. You can get it at auto paint shops, or if you have a friend that's got a body shop. Or even ask at a local body shop about etching the metal before you prime it. Makes the primer stick better and will help keep it all from peeling or rusting. We did that to all metal at the body shop I worked in that a friend owned up north. Some shops won't use it. But you'll see the difference over time if you do and compare it to metal that wasn't preped with it.

FireAm80 · 02-07-2008, 12:54 AM

Don't most media blasters need some sort of conversion to use baking soda? Just curious if i need to go ahead and order that also.

Greg Reid · 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patox

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...ss/Day2009.jpg

My dash looks right like this, I tought that it could be a lemmans dash trasplanted to my GTO, the gauges dont have the cromed ring, and it looks like it never had the woodgrain stuff in it.......

Can it be a GTO dash? what is missing?, why it looks different to the ones I have seing in pictures??

I've added a picture of mine also.

Thanks!

The GTO and Lemans dash are really the same. The GTO would just have had the woodgrain applied at the factory and they both would have had the chrome. Not sure about Tempest...but I believe they too would have had the chrome.
It's not uncommon for folks to have painted them black after long years of use had worn all the shine off. Restoring the chrome is kind of expensive and involved for what was back then a daily commuter... so they tended to go the easiest/cheapest route.
Or....they could be Lemans dashes...All the same, just a matter of applying the woodgrain and refinishing the chrome.
Now, for the Olds engine...At least it's not a BBC (Big Block Chevy)...and at least it's in the BOP&C (Buick, Olds, Pontiac & Cadillac) family.
Just for your information, us BOP&C folks kinda tend to stick together in the face of the Chevy crowd.

Andre · 02-07-2008, 08:52 AM

That car looks like it sat out side for a long time without the top, so that is probably what has happened with the chrome edging of the dash. When you pull it off and look at the back, you will see remnants fo teh chrome plating.

If this was my car, and having gone down this road more times than I want to remember, the first thing to do is get a metal person to come in and get the quarter panel cut out clean, and get the replacement panel welded in.

If you don't do this before you take the body off the frame, you are going to be risking the body folds in two.
There is also a ton of work that can be done before you take the body off the frame, so I would not rush into that.

Maybe at the same time you can get the weld work done to the trunk floor and the bottom of the fenders.

Next, I would try to reassemble the car with the parts that you have, and determine what is missing, or is not restorable and has to be replaced.
This is where the parts car that I mentioned comes in handy.

After seeing that car cleared off, it does not have 1/10 the rust that my '66 hardtop had.

66GTO Jim · 02-07-2008, 02:47 PM

Welcome to the PY Board and good luck on the resto of your Grandfather's car! I agree will all that was said above. Just a couple of tips. First, don't buy any parts until you need them. Most parts places have a 30 day return policy. I know too many guys who ordered a bunch of parts that sat in the boxes for a year or more, then they found out the part didn't fit, was made for another year GTO etc. They couldn't return the parts so had to try and sell them. One other suggestion. Try and do something almost every day even if it is something small or something that will take a while to complete but you can start on and leave till the next day. This keeps your interest in the restoration that is going to take a few years.

As for the dash, did you check the VIN number to make sure you have a GTO? You probably know this info and you did mention the history your Grandfather had with the car. I know it won't make a difference because it was your Grandfather's car, but I thought it a question to ask.

It's a simple check with a 66 GTO convertible because the VIN will tell you if it's a GTO or not unlike some other year GTOs.

The VIN number will look like 242676Pxxxxxx.
2 is Pontiac Motor Division
42 says its a GTO (Most important obviously) 37 for LeMans and 35 would be a Tempest
67 says its a Convertible
6 says it is the 1966 model year
P stands for Pontiac Plant, "B" would be Baltimore Plant, "K" for Kansas City Plant etc.
xxxxxx would actually be six numbers that are unique to your specific car

Also, I would suggest sending for the original billing history from Pontiac Historic Services (PHS). That will tell you what originally came on the car as options to assist you in the restoration. Go to www.phs-online.com to order. It is $50 well spent.

Keep those pictures coming as you go through the resto. Thanks for sharing. Jim

FireAm80 · 02-07-2008, 03:24 PM

As for not rushing into removing the body, thats gonna be an issue. Seeing as there are no body mount bolts, its just sitting there on the frame. I like the idea of assembling the car to see what i have but at the moment i cannot assemble anything because i can tell that i am goin to need a complete nut and bolt kit. As far as what I was thinking, I was going to take the body off and set it to the side for now. I would like to recoat the frame again. I believe it was POR-15'ed before. All the suspension has been rebuilt with new bushings. So once thats done then start all that wonderful body work. Does this sound like a good direction to for e to head towards?

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