[JS77]

Looking for some direction with 428 build. All I have is the block and crank, so will be needing just about everything. This will be mainly street driven. Going in 69 GTO 4 speed<m-22> with 3:55 gears and power brakes. Trans and gears could be changed if needed.
Thanks

[shaker455]

I did one recently, wiseco pistons, Edelbrock heads, hyd roller cam.

How much you thinking of spending?

[PunchT37]

Depends on how much ya wanna spend and, how much hp ya lookin for. Lots of ways to go. So, hard to answer.

[JS77]

Not to say that money is no object but I am willing to spend the money the first time so I don't have to do it again. The machine shop and I talked about a set of 87cc edelbrock heads and KB icon pistons to keep CR around 9.5.

[shaker455]

I would rather work with 72cc rather than 87's

72's are better all around and if your choosing things wisely you can run a lot more CR on pump gas.

[ANDYA]

How much HP are you looking to make?

[Singleton]

You could easily run at least 10.5 compression with aluminum heads

[JS77]

Wouldn't the 72 cc heads be way to much compression on 428? I don't want to be mixing race gas. This is something I want to drive around when and where I want.
I don't need ridicules HP but 450 shouldn't be unrealistic with this motor.

[Skip Fix]

A small dish piston and you can get whatever CR you want with whatever cc heads. Some forged rods and a good bottom end for just about whatever you want to do.

The 72cc heads flow a little better and many guys use them-myself included- on a 72cc 455 build.


Check out Bart's build for his 421 and the pistons

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=771741&page=8

[Singleton]

[QUOTE=JS77;5484881]Wouldn't the 72 cc heads be way to much compression on 428? I don't want to be mixing race gas. QUOTE]

Aluminum heads allow more compression than iron factory heads for pump gas.

9.5 max CR is the rule of thumb for iron heads, 10.5 for aluminum, (generally speaking).

Icon makes a -10cc 428 piston, and with 72 cc Eheads would be about 10.5-10.6 compression, (depending on actual bore size and deck height of pistons.

DSS makes a -14cc 428 slug

[shaker455]

Originally Posted by JS77

Wouldn't the 72 cc heads be way to much compression on 428? I don't want to be mixing race gas. This is something I want to drive around when and where I want.
I don't need ridicules HP but 450 shouldn't be unrealistic with this motor.

Better quench & flow with 72's

I built a pump gas 461 for a forum member here with new D-port E-heads 10.6:1 with heart chambers, nice custom roller cam & made 560 Hp & 600 Tq.

He drives it all the time...ask him how he likes it!

[shaker455]

Originally Posted by JS77

Looking for some direction with 428 build. All I have is the block and crank, so will be needing just about everything. This will be mainly street driven. Going in 69 GTO 4 speed<m-22> with 3:55 gears and power brakes. Trans and gears could be changed if needed.
Thanks

Love 3:55's with stick!

Just did some follow up work on motor build & install on a 69' Trans Am with stock appearing RAIII 400 with stick & those gears!

I had a great weekend!

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by JS77

Wouldn't the 72 cc heads be way to much compression on 428? I don't want to be mixing race gas. This is something I want to drive around when and where I want.
I don't need ridicules HP but 450 shouldn't be unrealistic with this motor.

With aluminum heads, you normally run a c/r 1-1.5 points HIGHER than you would with a comparable set of iron heads due to aluminum higher heat rejection. If you consider the "red line" compression with iron heads to be 9.5:1, you would run a 10.5 to 11:1 c/r with aluminum heads. IMO, 10:1 with aluminum heads on a street engine is the way to go, depending on your cam choice. BTW...many strong street 455 and 428 are putting out 450+ hp with 9.5:1 c/r's. There are LOTS of street 455 varient engines (455+ ci) producing 500+ hp with 10:1 c'r's and aluminum heads on 93 octane street gas.

[67gtospud]

Once you decide on your rods/pistons, be sure to have your block zero decked

[steve25]

And whatever amount was wacked off the block to deck it if that amount was .020" or more now needs to de removed from the heads Intake flange , or the Manifold flange do things bolt up nice.

[gtofreek]

I would run the 72 CC Kauffman or 72 CC Edelbrock heads. I built a 428 with un-ported iron #62 heads, and the Icon dished piston. It was around 9.5:1 and I ran this cam in it. Voodoo # 10510703. It has 227/233° @ .050", HFT. Nice sounding, not too radical idle. It was in a 65 GTO with 4 speed and 3:55 gears. That was a screaming 428 that pulled hard to 6000 RPM. It does not detonate here in the hot desert. That engine doesn't even think twice about burning the tires off.

If you want a little more aggressive idle, the 233/241 cam is a very strong runner in a 428 also. Very noticeable idle.

[tempest1964]

Anybody ever order that old 60903 Voodoo cam on a 112 LSA? Just curious how it ran and idled with a slightly wider LSA. How it affected engine vacuum, etc. What lifters did you run with that Paul?
Thanks,
Tony

[PDC]

The reason I am a dyed in the wool Pontiac guy today dates back to my older brother's car when we were in High School. He had a 71 LeMans Sport and he built a 428 for it in Vo-Tech. Simple build, basic machine work, stock rotating assembly with fresh pistons and a Crane Blazer cam circa 1984. Very 'small' cam for that many cubes. I am pretty sure that the heads were whatever came from the factory with solid compression. He actually ran a 'vera-jection' water injection system to control detonation and ping on hot days. Car was an absolute stump-puller. SO much off idle torque that the car's nickname among our group was 'light switch.'

I know I posted this on another thread, but during the recent 'upgrade' of the 455 in my Red car (1-piece rear main seal and 1-piece oil pan gasket), I discussed cams with Jim Butler. Car had an XE-268 and unported 6X-8 heads. I went with Box Stock D-Port E-Heads and Jim recommended the XE274 custom ground on a 112* LSA. (also had it nitrided for peace of mind) Haven't had her on a dyno yet, but I can attest that the car has an eye-opening increase in power everywhere on the tach. Absolutely no issues whatsoever with ping. Very quiet valvetrain. Far from the wildest build on this forum, but a substantial step up in power that didn't break the bank. I have to believe that moving one of the healthier VooDoo grinds out to a 112* LSA would be great on a big displacement, long-stroke build like a 428 and up where you have close to zero chance of losing off-idle torque and would like to spread your power across a wider band.

[gtofreek]

No reason to get that cam ground on a 112 LSA. It has plenty of power band now as is on a 110, and will make more power. The Voodoo cams do not need wide lobe seps due to their lobe offset, and asymmetrical design. Like I say, it pulls well to 6000 RPM in a 428 on the 110. In a 455, this cam, on a 110 LSA made 14" of vacuum at 5000 ft. elevation. We ran Johnson-Hi lift lifters. Standard version. These Voodoo cams do not need the extra wide LSA's the old, slow ramp, long seat duration, cams did. The small Voodoo's are ground on 112's, but from 227° and up, they are on 110's, and our experience with them has shown there is really no need to widen it. This cam in the 428 is very explosive when you push on the gas. It has no lack of low end torque. This cam in a 9.5:1 455, made 528 Ft. lbs. @ 3200, and 400 HP, and still made 444 ft. lbs. @ 1800 RPM. It still made 380 HP @ 5700 RPM. Try to beat that with a stick[or bump stick!]!

[PDC]

Hi Paul. You always have great 'real world' advice for the members of this forum. I always skim through threads looking for your posts. In hindsight, I wish I would have taken the time to explore / research the VooDoo grinds when my motor was apart. It turned out fine for its intended purpose (cruise nite and the occasional burn-out in the Dairy Queen parking lot!) but I wonder how the combo might have responded to a comparable size VooDoo.
My green car has a 'custom' XE grind that Charlie Kababby of Warpath Performance selected and it is really strong. It's a 236/240 @ .050 on a 112 and he swears by that grind in 455s and stroked 400s when the customer's budget doesn't allow for roller valvetrain. I checked the open and close points on the cam card and the 274 on a 112 came in within a couple of degrees on all points of Charlie's slightly harrier grind. Since that build (several years ago) Charlie has said he has used several VooDoos in more recent builds and loves them!