Subframe....to remove, or not to remove. That is the question (73 TA Build)
 

I suppose I'll use this as My Build Thread instead of cluttering up the board with questions.

This started out as a good "20 footer" that I've owned since 1986:

Looked like this a month ago

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08268.jpg

Now looks like this:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08516.jpg

It took me about 20 minutes with a hand grinder to get all the scale and surface rust off this frame leg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08503.jpg

My question is for those who have removed the front subframe. How hard was it to get it back alligned up?

I've got a good quick sandblast shop down the road, and that frame would look much better if they did it vs me with a grinder

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08505.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08504.jpg

I see that there are these holes near the front body mount.
Do you just use these holes and align them with a big drift pin and crank it back down?
May as well replace the bushings too. Should I drill my own alignment holes or scribe or punch some reference marks? Just wanting some reassurance.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08513.jpg


As it was mentioned in NJSteve's build up. "I'm only 4 bolts away"
My fear is that the sheet metal will never line up again once I remove those 4 bolts and it will haunt me every day untill final assembly comes!

Also,
I've been pressure washing like crazy and I think I see the original primer under here...or is that Buccaneer Red?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08506.jpg

So far this body has absolutely NO rust...very pleased.

Original finish on this spindle too..under a thick layer of goo:


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08501.jpg


Planning on an Easter finish deadline....Whats the chances?

The sub frame re-install/alignment is pretty simple/easy.

Before you remove it,just insert a large tapered drift/punch into the gauge pin holes in body & subframe.

If it's straight /true now,that's what you want to achieve when you re-assemble.

You can get carried away on this project; grind the welds to clean them up & get everything powder coated in semi-gloss (or the color of your choice)

Have fun!

Yep.
They are both straight through:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08512.jpg

I'm planning on using Eastwoods X2 Ceramic Chassis Black system since powdercoaters are scarce and expensive for a piece this large, or so it seems.

Another question.
Where should I support the body while the frame is removed? The pinch welds, or up near the front body mount somewhere?

There is probably no real GOOD place.

Underneath the rocker panel flange with long wooden blocks parallel to rocker has worked for me before.

You could fab up a small frame with some pony wheels & attach it to the cowl where inner fenders bolt up.

That way your body tub is still slightly mobile,if it needs to be.

Definitely remove the subframe and have it blasted. You're too close not to.

You should be able to line it up just fine with the holes per above. I believe there's also dimensions in the shop manual that you can check relative to (cross dimensions from front of frame back to bodyshell).

IWhat you're seeing on the bottom of the car is a mix of the Buc red (there's usually quite a bit of body overspray under there) and the factory e-coat primer.

Nice project!

I'm not sure I could have torn one down that looked that nice to begin with :)

If you get a 4x4 of the right length it will span across the underside of the body where toomany mentions. It's a good strong spot. Then put blocks or whatever at each end. If you need to move it just put your floor jack under the middle of the 4x4, raise it and you can wheel it around easily.

One thing I noticed is the hood. Move it off the car or it may slide off and damage body or hood. I know first hand because I had that very thing happen to me years ago. Good luck with your work.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I'd pretty much made up my mind to remove the subframe when I posted this, just wanted some good input.

It looks like a 48 inch long 4x4 would span across the original front body mount area.
Great Idea on putting some casters there, cause when I get the frame off, I'll be turning the car around to pull the tank and detail the rear end.

The hood needs to be moved, thanks for the reminder!

As far as the car being in too good of condition for a redo:
check out the pics in my sig...lots of surface rusties like this core support lower shot:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08297.jpg


and the underhood was a mess....chrysler blue:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08224.jpg


and these nasty and expensive core support bushing things:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08365.jpg



The car has only been driven about 500 miles in 18 years, and I was always afraid of something breaking, blowing,
spewing or whatever..but it never did or even fail to start.

chuck

I found it pretty simple to get the frame back up, bolted on, aligned etc. Even using those rigging holes in the firewall mounts, there is a bit of wiggle room.
With the frame supported and pins in place in those holes, measure everything (see the manual for the measurements and where to measure from/to).
I just bumped it a little here and there making sure its all square and everything measured right.....did it by myself with a trolley jack, took about an hour. Surprised me after all the worries I'd heard about it.

Nice project!

The alignment holes in the subframe are actually 5/8" holes. I used 1/2" copper tubing to align mine. It is actually 1/2" ID, 5/8" OD. You can also take a lot of measurements before removing it which should confirm that you have it back right where it was.

I assume you're going to blast that core support while you have it off?

Depending on the build date of the car, that engine color could be factory correct. If it's prior to April 15th, you're good. After would be the slate blue like you see on so many SD cars.

Good luck with your project and ask away. That's why we all visit here.

Yep!
Core support already blasted and (now) primed.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08403.jpg



The engine color that you see from the top is actually a Chysler blue. I painted it when no other choices were available
when I pulled the valve covers and did a little top end paint work a long time ago.

The block is still this color:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08422.jpg

I've got 2 can of PY's best 73 Pontiac engine paint already. I hope its the right color??

how expensive was your powdercoating quote? here in cali, i got mine blasted and powdercoated semi-gloss black for $250. your rides is lookin' good, btw!

Hi Tuna, heres how I moved mine around, a piece of 2X4 box bolted to the front mounts and two castors from tractor supply, worked good. Good luck, have fun ! Bruce.

I was thinking the same thing, it looked pretty good.

Got the subframe off and dropped at the sand blaster!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08523.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08524.jpg

Loaded up the A arms and some other parts too for the blaster.
(stopped at work to press out the A arm bushings and ball joints first....what a PITA)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08525.jpg

Glad I did this. This was the worst bushing.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08522.jpg

And the matching bolt was about 15% eaten away!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08520.jpg



Used a 1 1/4" steel bar for my new support and "move around dolly" attachment point


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08526.jpg


Question of the day:
And how does the steering sleeve come off this shaft?
Is it just frozen on there, cause I loosened up the collar, but it wont budge..or not much.
I'm afaid to use much force, as I don't want to damage any column componets.


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...m/DSC08518.jpg

Remove the bolt, the shaft is slotted for it.

Thanks. I guess I need to completly remove it.

Very nice project !! You are doing it the right way !!

A steam cleaner will take off the undercoating that the pressurewasher will not

This is a great thread,as I have always feared having the subframe pulled,the pics of those bushings are getting my attention to ours.....Nice car fellow Illinoian.:usa2:

Those bolts are better than a few I've seen...rusted down to 1/4" diameter...scary to think the front of the car is hanging off those, lol.