how can you tell if she shipped with rally ii's or honeys? 74 T/A
 

74 Trans Am

With it being a TA, I don't think you can except with the build sheet?
An original windowsticker may have it but would have to go through my pics.


:confused:

/\ I have understood this to be correct.
Does PHS even have this?
I know that for Canadian cars, all the RPO's (no charge and optional) associated with a vehicle are on the file - so VVS can get them - but I don't think that PHS has this level of information recorded.

EDIT: a Canadian ordered car will show Z49 on the PHS.

PHS only shows the optional options (upgrades)

Z49 is for Canadian base charges, I doubt I have very many Bird invoices from them.

Some of the window stickers I did look at didn't show Honeycombs, but not sure on some of them if the originals.

:confused:

I don't know if it helps or not ...

My '72 Lemans PHS specifically states:

"HONYCOMB WLS" and yes, it is spelled that way. I do not know what two years later on TA's would show.

Ogre

The TA had the wheels as standard whether Rally II or Honeycomb, the Formula would show on PHS as the wheels were not standard equipment.

The LeMans/Tempest were probably extra cost wheels, the GTO though may have either as standard? (didn't check this though)


:confused:

options
 

Did you mean this document?

Agreed, my 1971 Trans Am (sold new in Ontario Canada) did not show the wheels on the PHS, but the GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services info lists option N98 "WHEEL: RALLY II ROAD"

"

That's part of the PHS it looks like.


:)

I think the code for Honeycomb would be P05 when ordered.


:)

Honeycombs were optional on your LeMans, thus the notation on the invoice copy. My HO T-37 Coupe was ordered with 'em as well. Heavy wheel, even as 14x7's.
On the T/A's of this era, it's going to take viewing the wheel box code on the original buildsheet to know how originally equipped.

No cost alternate at least from 71-74 TA , R2 or Hcomb .
The window sticker side bar will word one or the other as standard equipment , but its not an indicator.
Same thing with Transmission choice in that era , on TA

Whoever ordered the car , had the choices at no extra cost to the car.

Of course, if you have rims on there already, reading the dates may help prove they are originals.

Unfortunately no, she has dang American racing wheels. I have a set of 74 rally ii's in stock from my old car but a guy wanted to trade me for Honeys which I prefer but they are missing rings/caps.

I think I'll wait and save my money for aftermarket Honeys and hope they are lighter than factory units unless something else comes along.

Oversize aftermarket Honeys usually destroy the ride comfort of older cars unless you get modern fast action $u$pen$ion upgrades in unison.

Certain years of TA's did not get rings on their Honeys
But I forgot the protocol

@buzzo;
I get it;
I liked the honeycomb wheels too;
This is why I ran them on the ‘73 Formula I had.

The weight difference between HC & RII wheels might be surprising;
Were I in your situation I would go for RII’s before HC…

I've definitely heard that BVZ.

I'm researching sus options and it will likely be out of reach anyways...

I hear you but like my dodge buddy says I'm all flash and nobody is running them around here/so nice.

I ran rally ii's on the two old birds forever and I need a change!

Still at the dreaming stage however. 😑

incase proof was wanted...

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1714075666

looks smart

My 1974 SD 4-spd car is all original (except for what I did).

I have the PHS, and it doesn't state whether honeycombs or Rally IIs. I switched over to Rally IIs because the honeycombs were so heavy.

Was there any quantifiable difference when you changed over and if you lived closer would you let those beauties go? lol

I'm keeping the honeycombs for my car since they're date matching. The Rally IIs on it are not. My car is 100% numbers match, but I changed to a H-O Specialties cam and made a few other minor motor tweaks when I rebuilt it a few years ago.

I had a 1972 T/A 4-spd almost 30 years ago. It had the factory honeycombs on it. I was out doing some hard driving, and either an inner or outer wheel bearing disintegrated while in a hard turn. I almost lost control of the car but kept it between the ditches. I've had wheel bearings fail before, but I don't remember the car acting that badly. I can't say it was all the wheels fault, but I knew a lighter wheel would have less rotational inertia. I changed all of my birds over to the 8" WS6 snowflake wheels. I ran snowflakes on the SD for a few years, but put a set of Rally IIs on it for a local POCI show. I never went back to the snowflakes or honeycombs.

I could definitely tell it cornered better with the snowflakes vs the honeycombs. I also felt it took less braking effort. They look nice, but I would never run honeycombs on a driver.

Just joking about parting with your wheels and that's definitely a good reason to switch!

The CI site says the 15x7 rally ii's are 30LBs. Do you reckon the honey's weight that much more? Especially the cast aluminum aftermarket ones?

CI site??? 30lbs, no, not for an unboxed bare 15x7 Rally II wheel

15x7 4 3/4 bolt pattern original Rally II bare wheels weigh in around 22.5 lbs each.

14x7 Honeycomb weighs 25.4 lbs, bare, no trim ring or cap, loaded out they add aprox 8 lbs more on each corner compared to a HF or XE coded 14x6 steel wheel.

15x7 Honeycomb, I seem to remember 29 lbs bare, will unbox one & weigh it on same scale.

15x7 Buick Grand National wheels (the chrome/black ones) are the heaviest GM musclecar wheels I've ever weighed. Around 2 lbs heavier than a clunky 15x7 Honeycomb.

According to an article on the wheels (A Honey of a Design by Don Keefe), the 15X7 Honeys were supposed to weigh 30lbs. I haven't weighed mine, but I will try to remember to do it.

They sure seem to be more than that when I am dragging them around my garage -> old age!

Ogre

Classic Industries.

OK that's not horrible... Definitely heavier but after finally beating my high school arch nemesis 5L fox body my drag racing days are over anyways....lol

Doesn't help the 74 is the chonkiest bird there ever was (plus driver)... [emoji3526]

I wonder how the new cast aftermarket wheels compare.

Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk

The Jegs site gives the shipping weight of the new 17' X 9" Aluminum honeycombs with center caps and lug nuts as 125lbs for a set of 4, I assume that includes packaging, but that works out to almost 30lbs per wheel. So pretty much the same as the original polycast 15" X 7" versions. And yes the originals are very heavy wheels. I also replaced the set I had on a 72 T/A with Rally II's just because of the 35lb weight difference. I found the handling of the car was noticeably better with the "lighter" rally II wheels.

Interesting ... these are old dirty 15X7 (first pic) JJ coded (2nd pic). The weight was 29.6 lb. bare, and 30.6 with trim ring and center attached.

So if anybody wants to know the weight of trim ring + center tell them one pound.

Ogre

The new 17" honeycombs are very heavy.

JJ is the outer hoop shape/configuration/safety designation. Code is cast into the center pentagon (hidden under cap). Assembly date would be stamped on the outside of the inner lip. The hoop was made in '72, probably for an early '73 car.

Thanks HFR. I'll get some pics of those areas for my jpg loads of documentation.

Ogre

Oops, just saw your post about a '72 LeMans. I would be interested in seeing the stamping when you find them.

Yeah, these are not for my original '72. Some folks crashed that one in Dallas about 20 years ago, so I'm trying to clone it with some mods ... not original. I bought these four honeys on the internet, and have never cleaned them up, but I will check for the markings where you suggested and see what I have.

My PHS is below and you can see the special order of the "HONYCOMB WLS", but three lines above it shows G70X14s, so the originals were 14 inchers. Got all 4 (not the spare) for 93 bucks! My avatar is what it looked like after many years of beating it up.

Ogre

That's a good price if they all match.

I think I confused the issue with my last ... I was referring to my PHS invoice for the special ordered $93.60 honeys.

I can't recall what I paid for the four 15X7s I have now. I bought them a long time ago and have yet to clean them up. I just keep moving them to a different area of the garage to get them out of the away to do other tasks. lol

I'm guessing between $300-$400 back then.

Ogre

Thanks for the info guys...this is great

OK HFR, you got my curiosity up ... usually not a good idea for me. But anyway, I cleaned a little just see if I could find the markings. pic 1 below is one of the wheels markings on the inside lip. BTW I also found a "B" and "918" on the inner wheel inside (pic2). I know it is on a couple of the others. Not sure what those numbers mean either.

The stamping (?) on the poly pentagon area has something on each pointed area ... "POLY", "CAST", "PAT", "PEND", and a code of what appears to be two stamped letters with raised 2 digit number. WTH, stamped and raised together?!? I'll try to clean it without messing up the soft poly, and post here.

BTW, I could swear that they are at least 50lbs getting from my overhead storage and going up and down my ladder. Must be another indication of OLD AGE!!!

Ok next try ...

I got pics of two of the wheels, so I probably do NOT have a matched set. I'll get the other two later, when I get younger. LOL One is "HP17" and the other is "HP15".

Summary: all indented (cast or stamped) are exact same character set. The two digits on the code are definitely raised, indicating to my feeble mind, they had to be cast rather than raised at a later time.

Anyway that's the best I can do for now, guys. HTH

Ogre

M1 3 11
.6.
March 11, 1976.

Looks like you can see gold paint.
And, HP, is the pick code for 15x7 Honeycomb wheels.

I had this argument with someone a while back regarding a 1971 T/A. Say the bottom half of the buildsheet is illegible where they listed all the RPO codes in the columns with the option names, y'know how there are all the boxes with codes in them? If the wheel code box of the buildsheet said "KR", does this mean this 1971 for example had Rally II wheels?

Yes, 15x7 Rally II's.